I don’t usually soap-box, but I’m going to for a hot sec since this has been on my mind:
Cults are getting better branding, prettier leaders, hipper-sounding cosmologies, and wider reaches due to social media. They’re not all deity-focused. Thoughtful, intelligent people can get sucked into them. Just…stay safe out there, guys. Do your research, look at all your options, and trust your gut, not your guru.
I’m glad this is resonating with people.
I do want to emphasize, again, that cults (and toxic groups with cult-like attributes, I’m using this term pretty loosely) don’t usually look like what you’d expect. A lot of toxic and dangerous religious movements are tiny and you won’t find much about them via Google. Cultish non-religious movements are the same way.
Start-ups, multi-level marketing companies, activist groups, fan groups, political groups, and internet gurus who run retreats can all be cult-like and dangerous. Tune your BS detector, ask family, friends, and experts for advice.
Here are some warning signs:
Pressure – pressure to make quick decisions, to give (or pledge) considerable amounts of money, to move in with a group, to abandon family or cut off friends. Elevated Leaders – anyone claiming special insight, special powers, or that they aren’t human. Demanding special treatment (compared to other followers). Misuse of funds or money collecting at the top. physical, emotional, and/or sexual abuse. Lack of accountability or oversight. Isolation – encouraging (or requiring) members to cut off family relationships, friendships with those outside of the group, leaving jobs, moving to isolated areas, taking away communication methods. Strong “us-vs-them” mentality. Vilification of ex-members. Love-bombing. Altered states of consciousness – long work hours, sleep deprivation, lack of access to adequate food or water. Otherwise unproblematic activities like meditation/prayer/chanting, but done for hours. Discouraging doubt – discouraging or punishing doubt and critical thinking.
If these send up red flags for you or loved ones, here are some collected resources: one, two.
Trust your gut, not your guru
Paganism is especially vulnerable to cults so a couple of decades ago Isaac Bonewits (one of our more prolific authors) devised a quick evaluation tool: the Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame. It might be a good starting point if you’re concerned about a group or a guru.
This has become so nessicary for not just pagans but everyone beware of anyone who doesnt want you to think for yourself.
*coffcoff* I’m just going to leave this here. I’m sure you can all figure out why.
Just so you know telling people who they can and can’t reblog from according to your standards of acceptable feminism and sending asks to people who they reblog from people you disagree with is obsessive and controlling behaviour. It’s not normal behaviour and it is a warning sign of an abuser.
Radfems don’t tell people not to reblog from trans activists I don’t
care if any radfem reblogs a post made by a transactivist. Yet
transactivists and their supporters make it their life’s mission to
micromanage their followers to make sure they never reblog from a ‘terf‘
even if the post has nothing to do with trans issues.
I know many women are scared of the people who do this so they create
secret side blogs or only like radfem posts because they know that there
will be plenty of bloggers who want to harass them for reading anything
that questions transgenderism or anything to do with radical
feminism.
To ‘remind‘ people that the ‘op is a terf’ you would have to not only be keeping track of us you would have to be obsessively checking on who is reblogging from who. That is creepy. Why would you go to such lengths to try to basically exile radfems. Calm the fuck down and stop micro managing women’s speech and who they are reblog from. You are making a tense, uncomfortable and misogynist environment for female bloggers with the obsessive ‘op is a terf‘ and note checking. Stop being so controlling it’s weird.
The demand for purity creates a guilty milieu and a shaming milieu
by holding up standards of perfection that no human being can attain.
People are punished and learn to punish themselves for not living up to the
group’s ideals.
This just in: realizing a group of people are toxic and wanting to not associate with them/not wanting others to associate with them is now cult ideology.
and so is #2
We also say stuff like dont reblog from nazis, pedophiles, members of hate groups etc. So if you want people to stop saying that about you, stop being a raging bigot.
Actually, you don’t. I’ve never seen a single post from you lot saying “don’t reblog from Nazis” or “don’t reblog from pedophiles”. Probably because everyone already knows not to reblog from them. It’s always “don’t reblog from TERFs”. It’s literally only “TERFs” you have to ensure nobody reblog from at all costs.
But of course you’re lying. Because that’s all cultists can do. You’re incapable of anything else.
I literally never see blocklists for nazis and pedophiles from them
There are legitimate warnings, tips on how to identify white supremacists and pedophiles and justified calls for reporting but I don’t see pedophile or white supremacist blocklists from them (or in general really)
What makes ‘terfs’ so scary that we need constant monitoring, warnings against us and blocklists?
Just so you know telling people who they can and can’t reblog from according to your standards of acceptable feminism and sending asks to people who they reblog from people you disagree with is obsessive and controlling behaviour. It’s not normal behaviour and it is a warning sign of an abuser.
Radfems don’t tell people not to reblog from trans activists I don’t
care if any radfem reblogs a post made by a transactivist. Yet
transactivists and their supporters make it their life’s mission to
micromanage their followers to make sure they never reblog from a ‘terf‘
even if the post has nothing to do with trans issues.
I know many women are scared of the people who do this so they create
secret side blogs or only like radfem posts because they know that there
will be plenty of bloggers who want to harass them for reading anything
that questions transgenderism or anything to do with radical
feminism.
To ‘remind‘ people that the ‘op is a terf’ you would have to not only be keeping track of us you would have to be obsessively checking on who is reblogging from who. That is creepy. Why would you go to such lengths to try to basically exile radfems. Calm the fuck down and stop micro managing women’s speech and who they are reblog from. You are making a tense, uncomfortable and misogynist environment for female bloggers with the obsessive ‘op is a terf‘ and note checking. Stop being so controlling it’s weird.
The demand for purity creates a guilty milieu and a shaming milieu
by holding up standards of perfection that no human being can attain.
People are punished and learn to punish themselves for not living up to the
group’s ideals.
This just in: realizing a group of people are toxic and wanting to not associate with them/not wanting others to associate with them is now cult ideology.
and so is #2
We also say stuff like dont reblog from nazis, pedophiles, members of hate groups etc. So if you want people to stop saying that about you, stop being a raging bigot.
Actually, you don’t. I’ve never seen a single post from you lot saying “don’t reblog from Nazis” or “don’t reblog from pedophiles”. Probably because everyone already knows not to reblog from them. It’s always “don’t reblog from TERFs”. It’s literally only “TERFs” you have to ensure nobody reblog from at all costs.
But of course you’re lying. Because that’s all cultists can do. You’re incapable of anything else.
I literally never see blocklists for nazis and pedophiles from them
There are legitimate warnings, tips on how to identify white supremacists and pedophiles and justified calls for reporting but I don’t see pedophile or white supremacist blocklists from them (or in general really)
What makes ‘terfs’ so scary that we need constant monitoring, warnings against us and blocklists?
Just so you know telling people who they can and can’t reblog from according to your standards of acceptable feminism and sending asks to people who they reblog from people you disagree with is obsessive and controlling behaviour. It’s not normal behaviour and it is a warning sign of an abuser.
Radfems don’t tell people not to reblog from trans activists I don’t
care if any radfem reblogs a post made by a transactivist. Yet
transactivists and their supporters make it their life’s mission to
micromanage their followers to make sure they never reblog from a ‘terf‘
even if the post has nothing to do with trans issues.
I know many women are scared of the people who do this so they create
secret side blogs or only like radfem posts because they know that there
will be plenty of bloggers who want to harass them for reading anything
that questions transgenderism or anything to do with radical
feminism.
To ‘remind‘ people that the ‘op is a terf’ you would have to not only be keeping track of us you would have to be obsessively checking on who is reblogging from who. That is creepy. Why would you go to such lengths to try to basically exile radfems. Calm the fuck down and stop micro managing women’s speech and who they are reblog from. You are making a tense, uncomfortable and misogynist environment for female bloggers with the obsessive ‘op is a terf‘ and note checking. Stop being so controlling it’s weird.
The demand for purity creates a guilty milieu and a shaming milieu
by holding up standards of perfection that no human being can attain.
People are punished and learn to punish themselves for not living up to the
group’s ideals.
This just in: realizing a group of people are toxic and wanting to not associate with them/not wanting others to associate with them is now cult ideology.
and so is #2
We also say stuff like dont reblog from nazis, pedophiles, members of hate groups etc. So if you want people to stop saying that about you, stop being a raging bigot.
“Standards of perfection that no human being can attain”… oh my god
Anyone who doesn’t relentlessly post transmisogynist propaganda confirmed as perfect, godlike beings! Who knew it was that easy?
Op is a terf
As an abuse survivor, I find this incredibly insulting. Calling someone out for what they are, in your case a HATEFUL TERF, is not abusive in the slightest and the fact you’re using language meant for abuse victims is so unbelievably disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. You are not being abused for being called a TERF. Maybe if you lot weren’t so openly hateful and bigoted, you wouldn’t get as much shit. I for one am thankful for every person that identifies a TERF. I and plenty of other people on this website want as little association with people like you as possible. Op is a TERF and has no right to use language meant for abuse victims.
“As an abuse survivor, I find this incredibly insulting.”
As a childhood sexual abuse survivor I find being put in the same category as a pedophile or a nazi repulsive but you don’t care. As long as get to be self righteous prick and scream at women for disagreement.
“Calling someone out for what they are,”
Nobody is terf, dickhead.
You are just calling women misnomers.
“in your case a HATEFUL TERF,”
This is even more abuse.
You look deranged when you say that.
“is not abusive in the slightest and the fact”
It is abuse. We have plenty of receipts of abuse from scumbags like you.
Terfisaslur.com is only one archive we have documenting trans activist’s misogyny and abuse directed at ‘terfs’.
I can get more if you want more receipts.
“you’re using language meant for abuse victims is so unbelievably disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. ”
I should “be ashamed of myself” for using language meant for me???
Anyone can point out (actual) abuse. It isn’t limited to abuse victims.
“You are not being abused for being called a TERF.”
Yes we are. “Terf” dehumanises women and set them up as acceptable targets of vitriolic misogyny. You are contributing to misogyny directed at us.
You should be thankful. We are the ones who stand up to abusive men who co-opt our identity and remove women’s rights.
Ungrateful fuckwit
“Maybe if you lot weren’t so openly hateful and bigoted, you wouldn’t get as much shit.”
Translation: maybe if you bitches shut up and stopped telling the truth we wouldn’t be so viciously abusive not really tho
“I for one am thankful for every person that identifies a TERF.”
I misread this part. I thought they were saying that they were thankful ‘terfs’ we’re making it easier for them to identify but what they actually meant is sinister.
They are talking about ‘identifying’ us in a McCarthyist manner.
“I and plenty of other people on this website want as little association with people like you as possible.”
Because you hate women.
That is a popular position.
You are in company with MRAs.
“Op is a TERF”
You are proving my point.
“and has no right to use language meant for abuse victims.”
I am an abuse victim and you have shit for brains and no empathy.
Just so you know telling people who they can and can’t reblog from according to your standards of acceptable feminism and sending asks to people who they reblog from people you disagree with is obsessive and controlling behaviour. It’s not normal behaviour and it is a warning sign of an abuser.
Radfems don’t tell people not to reblog from trans activists I don’t
care if any radfem reblogs a post made by a transactivist. Yet
transactivists and their supporters make it their life’s mission to
micromanage their followers to make sure they never reblog from a ‘terf‘
even if the post has nothing to do with trans issues.
I know many women are scared of the people who do this so they create
secret side blogs or only like radfem posts because they know that there
will be plenty of bloggers who want to harass them for reading anything
that questions transgenderism or anything to do with radical
feminism.
To ‘remind‘ people that the ‘op is a terf’ you would have to not only be keeping track of us you would have to be obsessively checking on who is reblogging from who. That is creepy. Why would you go to such lengths to try to basically exile radfems. Calm the fuck down and stop micro managing women’s speech and who they are reblog from. You are making a tense, uncomfortable and misogynist environment for female bloggers with the obsessive ‘op is a terf‘ and note checking. Stop being so controlling it’s weird.
The demand for purity creates a guilty milieu and a shaming milieu
by holding up standards of perfection that no human being can attain.
People are punished and learn to punish themselves for not living up to the
group’s ideals.
This just in: realizing a group of people are toxic and wanting to not associate with them/not wanting others to associate with them is now cult ideology.
and so is #2
We also say stuff like dont reblog from nazis, pedophiles, members of hate groups etc. So if you want people to stop saying that about you, stop being a raging bigot.
“Standards of perfection that no human being can attain”… oh my god
Anyone who doesn’t relentlessly post transmisogynist propaganda confirmed as perfect, godlike beings! Who knew it was that easy?
Op is a terf
As an abuse survivor, I find this incredibly insulting. Calling someone out for what they are, in your case a HATEFUL TERF, is not abusive in the slightest and the fact you’re using language meant for abuse victims is so unbelievably disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. You are not being abused for being called a TERF. Maybe if you lot weren’t so openly hateful and bigoted, you wouldn’t get as much shit. I for one am thankful for every person that identifies a TERF. I and plenty of other people on this website want as little association with people like you as possible. Op is a TERF and has no right to use language meant for abuse victims.
“As an abuse survivor, I find this incredibly insulting.”
As a childhood sexual abuse survivor I find being put in the same category as a pedophile or a nazi repulsive but you don’t care. As long as get to be self righteous prick and scream at women for disagreement.
“Calling someone out for what they are,”
Nobody is terf, dickhead.
You are just calling women misnomers.
“in your case a HATEFUL TERF,”
This is even more abuse.
You look deranged when you say that.
“is not abusive in the slightest and the fact”
It is abuse. We have plenty of receipts of abuse from scumbags like you.
Terfisaslur.com is only one archive we have documenting trans activist’s misogyny and abuse directed at ‘terfs’.
I can get more if you want more receipts.
“you’re using language meant for abuse victims is so unbelievably disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. ”
I should “be ashamed of myself” for using language meant for me???
Anyone can point out (actual) abuse. It isn’t limited to abuse victims.
“You are not being abused for being called a TERF.”
Yes we are. “Terf” dehumanises women and set them up as acceptable targets of vitriolic misogyny. You are contributing to misogyny directed at us.
You should be thankful. We are the ones who stand up to abusive men who co-opt our identity and remove women’s rights.
Ungrateful fuckwit
“Maybe if you lot weren’t so openly hateful and bigoted, you wouldn’t get as much shit.”
Translation: maybe if you bitches shut up and stopped telling the truth we wouldn’t be so viciously abusive not really tho
“I for one am thankful for every person that identifies a TERF.”
I misread this part. I thought they were saying that they were thankful ‘terfs’ we’re making it easier for them to identify but what they actually meant is sinister.
They are talking about ‘identifying’ us in a McCarthyist manner.
“I and plenty of other people on this website want as little association with people like you as possible.”
Because you hate women.
That is a popular position.
You are in company with MRAs.
“Op is a TERF”
You are proving my point.
“and has no right to use language meant for abuse victims.”
I am an abuse victim and you have shit for brains and no empathy.
Something really gross and manipulative TERFs do that separates them from run-of-the-mill transphobes is to pretend that they alone are representative of the true thoughts of women, particularly of lesbians.
To them, it doesn’t matter how kindly my transgender friends and I treat each other. It doesn’t matter that they’ve trusted me to know who they truly are, even while they were closeted to most of the world. It doesn’t matter that I’ve never once felt pressured to transition because of them– at least, not through any conscious effort of theirs. It doesn’t matter that I’ve spent time doing research and carefully considering the facts and ethics, and that I came to the conclusion that empathy is the best policy.
No, if TERFs are to be believed, my friends hate and/or fetishize me, and it’s my duty as a woman and a lesbian to fight them.
This rhetoric of scaremongering and line-drawing is illogical, abusive, and cruel to all parties involved.
There’s a real world outside of their dystopian fantasy bubble, where butch lesbians and trans men exist at peace with one another, where trans women are not the hideous boogeymen of conservative nightmares, and where nonbinary people live healthy, fulfilling, and kind lives. And guess what? The vast majority don’t want to hurt women or uphold gender stereotypes or what-have-you.
I don’t want to live my life in fear and hatred of people who just want to exist as they are, coping with dysphoria in whatever way they need to. And I’m just as sure they don’t want to live dreading people like me because some TERF online claimed that all lesbians think the same way deep down. Well, the truth is, we don’t.
TERFs, you don’t speak for me. This lesbian is not your pawn.
Yeah, you’re their pawn
There a lot of female and femininity fetishists in the trans community
@grizzabellowing said: “@celtyradfem Whose pawn? The medical and scientific community’s?”
Trans activists and by extension Big Pharma and sexists in general
Sorry but the lady brain theory is fake. The science doesn’t back you
Neither does the (honest) medical community. Sexual dimorphism is a huge factor in how medical professionals treat patients especially when in regards to medication
Are we going to play the link dump game now? Alright, have it your way.
TL;DR: While there is, of course, significant overlap between the brains of men and women, there remain differences in the overall bell curves of male and female brain physiology. In addition, differences in gray matter volume, cortical thickness, and response to steroids suggest that trans women in particular have on average more female-typical brain characteristics than cis males.
As for medical practitioners and trans patients, I would say that the doctor’s office is one of a rather small list of social situations where someone’s transgender status is relevant, so we are in agreement… to an extent.
Most competent doctors understand perfectly the relevance of sexual dimorphism. Most competent doctors also understand the effects of HRT and the reality of sex dysphoria, and will accommodate it to whatever extent they can without endangering their patient’s health. A doctor calling someone “she” out of courtesy will not in any way negate their ability to perform a prostate exam or administer the needed medicine.
The first link states that “non homosexual” trans males react differently to the scent of testosterone than regular men . This could be for a multitude of different reasons including the effects of taking artificial hormones or possible bisexuality which would result in different reactions in brain chemistry.
The sample size is small even for a small population. They only used 12 “non homosexual” trans males and no homosexual trans males as a sample group.
“We analyzed MRI data of 24 male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals not yet treated with cross-sex hormones in order to determine whether gray matter volumes in MTF transsexuals more closely resemble people who share their biological sex (30 control men), or people who share their gender identity (30 control women).”
Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women. However, MTF transsexuals show a significantly larger volume of regional gray matter in the right putamen compared to men"
This study is more solid than the sniff test. The study shows that trans males have grey matter patterns closer to the grey matter found in regular men’s brain than in women’s brains.
“Gender dysphoria is suggested to be a consequence of sex atypical cerebral differentiation. We tested this hypothesis in a magnetic resonance study of voxel-based morphometry and structural volumetry in 48 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW) and 24 gynephillic male to female transsexuals (MtF-TR).”
This has a better sample size
HeM are heterosexual males
HeW are heterosexual females
MtF-TR are trans males
“Specific interest was paid to gray matter (GM) and white matter (WM) fraction, hemispheric asymmetry, and volumes of the hippocampus, thalamus, caudate, and putamen. Like HeM, MtF-TR displayed larger GM volumes than HeW in the cerebellum and lingual gyrus and smaller GM and WM volumes in the precentral gyrus. Both male groups had smaller hippocampal volumes than HeW.”
This indicates that straight males and trans males brains have more in common with each other than straight females.
“As in HeM, but not HeW, the right cerebral hemisphere and thalamus volume was in MtF-TR larger than the left. None of these measures differed between HeM and MtF-TR.”
Trans males have similar brain structures to regular men than women.
“MtF-TR displayed also singular features and differed from both control groups by having reduced thalamus and putamen volumes and elevated GM volumes in the right insular and inferior frontal cortex and an area covering the right angular gyrus.”
However they have some irregularities.
Different brains doesn’t mean opposite sex.
Here comes the good part
“The present data do not support the notion that brains of MtF-TR are feminized.”
Lady brain don’t real
“The observed changes in MtF-TR bring attention to the networks inferred in processing of body perception.”
Which explains dysphoria but does not support the lady brain claim.
METHOD: To investigate potential neuroanatomical variations associated with transsexualism, we compared the regional thickness of the cerebral cortex between 24 MTF transsexuals who had not yet been treated with cross-sex hormones and 24 age-matched control males.
RESULTS: Results revealed thicker cortices in MTF transsexuals, both within regions of the left hemisphere (i.e., frontal and orbito-frontal cortex, central sulcus, perisylvian regions, paracentral gyrus) and right hemisphere (i.e., pre-/post-central gyrus, parietal cortex, temporal cortex, precuneus, fusiform, lingual, and orbito-frontal gyrus).
CONCLUSION: These findings provide further evidence that brain anatomy is associated with gender identity, where measures in MTF transsexuals appear to be shifted away from gender-congruent men.
This study indicates trans males have some differences in brain structure to regular men but doesn’t even use female research subjects. This indicates that despite many similarities, trans males are neurologically different to regular men but does not show similarities between women and trans males.
This study suggests a neurological basis for dsyphoria not a female brain in a male body.
“Click-evoked otoacoustic emissions (CEOAEs) are echo-like sounds that are produced by the inner ear in response to click-stimuli. CEOAEs generally have a higher amplitude in women compared to men and neonates already show a similar sex difference in CEOAEs. Weaker responses in males are proposed to originate from elevated levels of testosterone during perinatal sexual differentiation. Therefore, CEOAEs may be used as a retrospective indicator of someone’s perinatal androgen environment.”
Assuming that is the cause of lower hearing amplitude in males then that would not account for the lack of differentiation between the female research subject groups.
“Although the etiology of GID is far from established, it is hypothesized that atypical levels of sex steroids during a critical period of sexual differentiation of the brain might play a role.”
This method of detecting ‘gender identity’ hasn’t been proven. It is just a theory.
“In the present study, we compared CEOAEs in treatment-naïve children and adolescents with early-onset GID (24 natal boys, 23 natal girls) and control subjects (65 boys, 62 girls). We replicated the sex difference in CEOAE response amplitude in the control group. This sex difference, however, was not present in the GID groups. Boys with GID showed stronger, more female-typical CEOAEs whereas girls with GID did not differ in emission strength compared to control girls.”
This would mean more testosterone impairs your hearing abilities but does not indicate that trans males have female brains.
Men with low(er) testosterone levels are still men.
The sixth link states:
“Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure”
Methods: Magnetic resonance brain images were made prior to, and during, cross-sex hormone treatment to study the influence of anti-androgen + estrogen treatment on brain morphology in eight young adult male-to-female transsexual human subjects and of androgen treatment in six female-to-male transsexuals.
Results: Compared with controls, anti-androgen + estrogen treatment decreased brain volumes of male-to-female subjects towards female proportions, while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions.“
Using artificial hormones is obviously going to change your brain chemistry but despite neuro plasticity it does not replicate the brain of the opposite sex.
”The CYP17 -34 T>C allele and genotype distributions were not statistically significantly different between MtF transsexuals and male controls. Of note, the CYP17 -34 T>C allele distribution was gender-specific among controls (CYP17 C: males; 604 of 1512 [40%] vs. females; 573 of 1826 [31%]). The MtF transsexuals had an allele distribution equivalent to male controls"
You’re not very good at this research thing
“whereas FtM transsexuals did not follow the gender-specific allele distribution of female controls but rather had an allele distribution equivalent to MtF transsexuals and male controls.”“
Technically this means do have similar brain structures to female brains except they are trans females brains.
Not quite the results you were hoping for.
If you believe trans females have male brains then trans males have male brains.
INTRODUCTION: The A2 allele of the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism has been linked to higher levels of serum testosterone, progesterone, and estradiol.
AIM: To determine whether the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism is associated with transsexualism.
METHODS: We analyzed 151 male-to-female (MtF), 142 female-to-male (FtM), 167 control male, and 168 control female individuals. Fragments that included the mutation were amplified by PCR and digested with MspA1. Our data were compared with the allele/genotype frequencies provided by the 1000 Genomes Data Base, and contrasted with a MEDLINE search of the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism in the literature.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: We investigated the association between transsexualism and the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism.
This study investigates the correlation between transsexuality different kinds of brain structures not the validity of female brains in trans males.
”RESULTS: A2 frequency was higher in the FtM (0.45) than the female control (0.38) and male control (0.39) groups, or the MtF group (0.36). This FtM > MtF pattern reached statistical significance (P = 0.041), although allele frequencies were not gender specific in the general population (P = 0.887). This observation concurred with the 1000 Genomes Data Base and the MEDLINE search.
CONCLUSION: Our data confirm a sex-dependent allele distribution of the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism in the transsexual population, FtM > MtF, suggestive of a hypothetical A2 involvement in transsexualism since the allele frequencies in the general population seem to be clearly related to geographic origin and ethnic background, but not sex.“
This study demonstrates that trans people’s brains are different from the general population but does not demonstrate that they have brain similar to the brains of the opposite sex.
Do you even read your studies????
Your studies do not support your positions and this is only eight links in.
The reason why I only posted five links was so that it is possible to read them and comprehend them so they can be checked against my claims. I didn’t link dump like you because my intention was to educate not overwhelm.
Technically I have already won but I think I will run a few victory laps as a "fuck you”.
Something really gross and manipulative TERFs do that separates them from run-of-the-mill transphobes is to pretend that they alone are representative of the true thoughts of women, particularly of lesbians.
To them, it doesn’t matter how kindly my transgender friends and I treat each other. It doesn’t matter that they’ve trusted me to know who they truly are, even while they were closeted to most of the world. It doesn’t matter that I’ve never once felt pressured to transition because of them– at least, not through any conscious effort of theirs. It doesn’t matter that I’ve spent time doing research and carefully considering the facts and ethics, and that I came to the conclusion that empathy is the best policy.
No, if TERFs are to be believed, my friends hate and/or fetishize me, and it’s my duty as a woman and a lesbian to fight them.
This rhetoric of scaremongering and line-drawing is illogical, abusive, and cruel to all parties involved.
There’s a real world outside of their dystopian fantasy bubble, where butch lesbians and trans men exist at peace with one another, where trans women are not the hideous boogeymen of conservative nightmares, and where nonbinary people live healthy, fulfilling, and kind lives. And guess what? The vast majority don’t want to hurt women or uphold gender stereotypes or what-have-you.
I don’t want to live my life in fear and hatred of people who just want to exist as they are, coping with dysphoria in whatever way they need to. And I’m just as sure they don’t want to live dreading people like me because some TERF online claimed that all lesbians think the same way deep down. Well, the truth is, we don’t.
TERFs, you don’t speak for me. This lesbian is not your pawn.
Yeah, you’re their pawn
There a lot of female and femininity fetishists in the trans community
@grizzabellowing said: “@celtyradfem Whose pawn? The medical and scientific community’s?”
Trans activists and by extension Big Pharma and sexists in general
Sorry but the lady brain theory is fake. The science doesn’t back you
Neither does the (honest) medical community. Sexual dimorphism is a huge factor in how medical professionals treat patients especially when in regards to medication
Are we going to play the link dump game now? Alright, have it your way.
TL;DR: While there is, of course, significant overlap between the brains of men and women, there remain differences in the overall bell curves of male and female brain physiology. In addition, differences in gray matter volume, cortical thickness, and response to steroids suggest that trans women in particular have on average more female-typical brain characteristics than cis males.
As for medical practitioners and trans patients, I would say that the doctor’s office is one of a rather small list of social situations where someone’s transgender status is relevant, so we are in agreement… to an extent.
Most competent doctors understand perfectly the relevance of sexual dimorphism. Most competent doctors also understand the effects of HRT and the reality of sex dysphoria, and will accommodate it to whatever extent they can without endangering their patient’s health. A doctor calling someone “she” out of courtesy will not in any way negate their ability to perform a prostate exam or administer the needed medicine.
The first link states that “non homosexual” trans males react differently to the scent of testosterone than regular men . This could be for a multitude of different reasons including the effects of taking artificial hormones or possible bisexuality which would result in different reactions in brain chemistry.
The sample size is small even for a small population. They only used 12 “non homosexual” trans males and no homosexual trans males as a sample group.
“We analyzed MRI data of 24 male-to-female (MTF) transsexuals not yet treated with cross-sex hormones in order to determine whether gray matter volumes in MTF transsexuals more closely resemble people who share their biological sex (30 control men), or people who share their gender identity (30 control women).”
Results revealed that regional gray matter variation in MTF transsexuals is more similar to the pattern found in men than in women. However, MTF transsexuals show a significantly larger volume of regional gray matter in the right putamen compared to men"
This study is more solid than the sniff test. The study shows that trans males have grey matter patterns closer to the grey matter found in regular men’s brain than in women’s brains.
“Gender dysphoria is suggested to be a consequence of sex atypical cerebral differentiation. We tested this hypothesis in a magnetic resonance study of voxel-based morphometry and structural volumetry in 48 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW) and 24 gynephillic male to female transsexuals (MtF-TR).”
This has a better sample size
HeM are heterosexual males
HeW are heterosexual females
MtF-TR are trans males
“Specific interest was paid to gray matter (GM) and white matter (WM) fraction, hemispheric asymmetry, and volumes of the hippocampus, thalamus, caudate, and putamen. Like HeM, MtF-TR displayed larger GM volumes than HeW in the cerebellum and lingual gyrus and smaller GM and WM volumes in the precentral gyrus. Both male groups had smaller hippocampal volumes than HeW.”
This indicates that straight males and trans males brains have more in common with each other than straight females.
“As in HeM, but not HeW, the right cerebral hemisphere and thalamus volume was in MtF-TR larger than the left. None of these measures differed between HeM and MtF-TR.”
Trans males have similar brain structures to regular men than women.
“MtF-TR displayed also singular features and differed from both control groups by having reduced thalamus and putamen volumes and elevated GM volumes in the right insular and inferior frontal cortex and an area covering the right angular gyrus.”
However they have some irregularities.
Different brains doesn’t mean opposite sex.
Here comes the good part
“The present data do not support the notion that brains of MtF-TR are feminized.”
Lady brain don’t real
“The observed changes in MtF-TR bring attention to the networks inferred in processing of body perception.”
Which explains dysphoria but does not support the lady brain claim.
METHOD: To investigate potential neuroanatomical variations associated with transsexualism, we compared the regional thickness of the cerebral cortex between 24 MTF transsexuals who had not yet been treated with cross-sex hormones and 24 age-matched control males.
RESULTS: Results revealed thicker cortices in MTF transsexuals, both within regions of the left hemisphere (i.e., frontal and orbito-frontal cortex, central sulcus, perisylvian regions, paracentral gyrus) and right hemisphere (i.e., pre-/post-central gyrus, parietal cortex, temporal cortex, precuneus, fusiform, lingual, and orbito-frontal gyrus).
CONCLUSION: These findings provide further evidence that brain anatomy is associated with gender identity, where measures in MTF transsexuals appear to be shifted away from gender-congruent men.
This study indicates trans males have some differences in brain structure to regular men but doesn’t even use female research subjects. This indicates that despite many similarities, trans males are neurologically different to regular men but does not show similarities between women and trans males.
This study suggests a neurological basis for dsyphoria not a female brain in a male body.
“Click-evoked otoacoustic emissions (CEOAEs) are echo-like sounds that are produced by the inner ear in response to click-stimuli. CEOAEs generally have a higher amplitude in women compared to men and neonates already show a similar sex difference in CEOAEs. Weaker responses in males are proposed to originate from elevated levels of testosterone during perinatal sexual differentiation. Therefore, CEOAEs may be used as a retrospective indicator of someone’s perinatal androgen environment.”
Assuming that is the cause of lower hearing amplitude in males then that would not account for the lack of differentiation between the female research subject groups.
“Although the etiology of GID is far from established, it is hypothesized that atypical levels of sex steroids during a critical period of sexual differentiation of the brain might play a role.”
This method of detecting ‘gender identity’ hasn’t been proven. It is just a theory.
“In the present study, we compared CEOAEs in treatment-naïve children and adolescents with early-onset GID (24 natal boys, 23 natal girls) and control subjects (65 boys, 62 girls). We replicated the sex difference in CEOAE response amplitude in the control group. This sex difference, however, was not present in the GID groups. Boys with GID showed stronger, more female-typical CEOAEs whereas girls with GID did not differ in emission strength compared to control girls.”
This would mean more testosterone impairs your hearing abilities but does not indicate that trans males have female brains.
Men with low(er) testosterone levels are still men.
The sixth link states:
“Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure”
Methods: Magnetic resonance brain images were made prior to, and during, cross-sex hormone treatment to study the influence of anti-androgen + estrogen treatment on brain morphology in eight young adult male-to-female transsexual human subjects and of androgen treatment in six female-to-male transsexuals.
Results: Compared with controls, anti-androgen + estrogen treatment decreased brain volumes of male-to-female subjects towards female proportions, while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions.“
Using artificial hormones is obviously going to change your brain chemistry but despite neuro plasticity it does not replicate the brain of the opposite sex.
”The CYP17 -34 T>C allele and genotype distributions were not statistically significantly different between MtF transsexuals and male controls. Of note, the CYP17 -34 T>C allele distribution was gender-specific among controls (CYP17 C: males; 604 of 1512 [40%] vs. females; 573 of 1826 [31%]). The MtF transsexuals had an allele distribution equivalent to male controls"
You’re not very good at this research thing
“whereas FtM transsexuals did not follow the gender-specific allele distribution of female controls but rather had an allele distribution equivalent to MtF transsexuals and male controls.”“
Technically this means do have similar brain structures to female brains except they are trans females brains.
Not quite the results you were hoping for.
If you believe trans females have male brains then trans males have male brains.
INTRODUCTION: The A2 allele of the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism has been linked to higher levels of serum testosterone, progesterone, and estradiol.
AIM: To determine whether the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism is associated with transsexualism.
METHODS: We analyzed 151 male-to-female (MtF), 142 female-to-male (FtM), 167 control male, and 168 control female individuals. Fragments that included the mutation were amplified by PCR and digested with MspA1. Our data were compared with the allele/genotype frequencies provided by the 1000 Genomes Data Base, and contrasted with a MEDLINE search of the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism in the literature.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: We investigated the association between transsexualism and the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism.
This study investigates the correlation between transsexuality different kinds of brain structures not the validity of female brains in trans males.
”RESULTS: A2 frequency was higher in the FtM (0.45) than the female control (0.38) and male control (0.39) groups, or the MtF group (0.36). This FtM > MtF pattern reached statistical significance (P = 0.041), although allele frequencies were not gender specific in the general population (P = 0.887). This observation concurred with the 1000 Genomes Data Base and the MEDLINE search.
CONCLUSION: Our data confirm a sex-dependent allele distribution of the CYP17 MspA1 polymorphism in the transsexual population, FtM > MtF, suggestive of a hypothetical A2 involvement in transsexualism since the allele frequencies in the general population seem to be clearly related to geographic origin and ethnic background, but not sex.“
This study demonstrates that trans people’s brains are different from the general population but does not demonstrate that they have brain similar to the brains of the opposite sex.
Do you even read your studies????
Your studies do not support your positions and this is only eight links in.
The reason why I only posted five links was so that it is possible to read them and comprehend them so they can be checked against my claims. I didn’t link dump like you because my intention was to educate not overwhelm.
Technically I have already won but I think I will run a few victory laps as a "fuck you”.
The trans movement is really getting more chilling by the day, as mainstream organisations, media outlets and politicians not only give it more and more support, but feel more and more comfortable backing its lies and science denial while blatantly silencing and censoring any remotely critical views.
The UK government is planning the legal replacement of biological sex with gender identity this autumn, thus erasing women’s legal protections (x) and
the politician in charge of implementing this threatened to walk out when asked any questions about how it will impact women (x) and
a woman started a petition asking the UK government to give this issue further consideration (see 1st link), and the website removed the petition within 24 hours because it “discriminates against trans women”, thus ironically answering the question of how this legal change will impact women – the website has already implemented this change, stating that they “reserve the right to remove any petition that discriminates on the basis of gender, ethnicity…” Sex has been replaced with gender as a protected category, so women have no recourse. Trying to protect their sex-based rights discriminates against men’s gender-based rights.
also chilling is this Teen Vogue article from last week in which a “trans expert” working for a government-funded LGBT health centre states “in over a decade working with the community, I have never met someone who regretted transition or who wanted to de-transition” (They loved this quote so much they put it in the article’s headline…) (x)
from this same article, which also contains the words “It doesn’t matter why someone is transgender, or how old they are”, Dr Olson-Kennedy, the medical director of the largest trans youth clinic in the US, answers the question “Wouldn’t it be better to wait until [children] were an age when they could decide for themselves what they really are?” with “we don’t wait until they are a certain age to address the distress” – keep in mind that she is the doctor who once bragged that 100% of the kids she’s put on puberty blockers went on to be sterilised by cross-sex hormones, has gone to court several times to force reluctant parents to let her give their children puberty blockers, and wants to perform genital surgery on underage trans kids (x)
also very chilling is this UK association for trans kids, who blocks former trans kids who detransitioned because their existence is inconvenient, and who advises schools and trains teachers on how to deal with kids (as young as three or four) who question their gender, now publicly recruiting kids (especially “vulnerable teens with no parental support”) by promising them sweets and puppies. Can you imagine adult gay people doing this?? Let alone a prominent gay organisation? Adults luring children with candy is usually understood as the creepiest thing ever but for some reason trans is the magic word that makes everything we would normally frown upon – you know, like corrective rape, conversion therapy, child sterilisation – suddenly benign and laudable.
There’s no point to this post, I just think trans activists are beyond creepy and morally bankrupt, that their eagerness to recruit as many kids as possible, dismantle women’s legal protections and demonise and suppress all dissenting voices with no regard to the enormous harm they are causing is sociopathic, and that their increasing conviction that they can get away with anything, boosted by the increasing government and media support for their bare-faced lies and woman-hating, gay-hating agenda, is honestly terrifying.
Update, 2 weeks later:
the European Lesbian Conference, to be held in October, has a session called “Defining, Deconstructing and Fighting Lesbophobia” which is 100% devoted to making life easier for straight men who call themselves lesbians, with no mention of any specific struggles faced by actual lesbians. It mentions “materials for transgender people“, “definition of transmisogyny“, “feminist discourses about trans women, with emphasis on the question of inclusion into women’s spaces”, “microaggressions trans women and our partners face in queer and WLT* (Women, Lesbian, Trans*) spaces”, and “suggestions for active solidarity and ways to combat transmisogyny in our own social and political spaces". (x)
the World Health Organisation deleted their “Sex and Gender” page which defined sex as biological characteristics and gender as socially constructed roles that oppress women, and replaced it with a “Gender” page conflating sex and gender and highlighting the importance of recognising “identities that do not fit into the male and female sex categories” (x) The Times columnist Janice Turner commented, “I wrote a column today because when bodies as powerful as WHO, Planned Parenthood & the British Medical Association can’t say “women menstruate”, we are entering insanity.”
The trans movement is really getting more chilling by the day, as mainstream organisations, media outlets and politicians not only give it more and more support, but feel more and more comfortable backing its lies and science denial while blatantly silencing and censoring any remotely critical views.
The UK government is planning the legal replacement of biological sex with gender identity this autumn, thus erasing women’s legal protections (x) and
the politician in charge of implementing this threatened to walk out when asked any questions about how it will impact women (x) and
a woman started a petition asking the UK government to give this issue further consideration (see 1st link), and the website removed the petition within 24 hours because it “discriminates against trans women”, thus ironically answering the question of how this legal change will impact women – the website has already implemented this change, stating that they “reserve the right to remove any petition that discriminates on the basis of gender, ethnicity…” Sex has been replaced with gender as a protected category, so women have no recourse. Trying to protect their sex-based rights discriminates against men’s gender-based rights.
also chilling is this Teen Vogue article from last week in which a “trans expert” working for a government-funded LGBT health centre states “in over a decade working with the community, I have never met someone who regretted transition or who wanted to de-transition” (They loved this quote so much they put it in the article’s headline…) (x)
from this same article, which also contains the words “It doesn’t matter why someone is transgender, or how old they are”, Dr Olson-Kennedy, the medical director of the largest trans youth clinic in the US, answers the question “Wouldn’t it be better to wait until [children] were an age when they could decide for themselves what they really are?” with “we don’t wait until they are a certain age to address the distress” – keep in mind that she is the doctor who once bragged that 100% of the kids she’s put on puberty blockers went on to be sterilised by cross-sex hormones, has gone to court several times to force reluctant parents to let her give their children puberty blockers, and wants to perform genital surgery on underage trans kids (x)
also very chilling is this UK association for trans kids, who blocks former trans kids who detransitioned because their existence is inconvenient, and who advises schools and trains teachers on how to deal with kids (as young as three or four) who question their gender, now publicly recruiting kids (especially “vulnerable teens with no parental support”) by promising them sweets and puppies. Can you imagine adult gay people doing this?? Let alone a prominent gay organisation? Adults luring children with candy is usually understood as the creepiest thing ever but for some reason trans is the magic word that makes everything we would normally frown upon – you know, like corrective rape, conversion therapy, child sterilisation – suddenly benign and laudable.
There’s no point to this post, I just think trans activists are beyond creepy and morally bankrupt, that their eagerness to recruit as many kids as possible, dismantle women’s legal protections and demonise and suppress all dissenting voices with no regard to the enormous harm they are causing is sociopathic, and that their increasing conviction that they can get away with anything, boosted by the increasing government and media support for their bare-faced lies and woman-hating, gay-hating agenda, is honestly terrifying.
Update, 2 weeks later:
the European Lesbian Conference, to be held in October, has a session called “Defining, Deconstructing and Fighting Lesbophobia” which is 100% devoted to making life easier for straight men who call themselves lesbians, with no mention of any specific struggles faced by actual lesbians. It mentions “materials for transgender people“, “definition of transmisogyny“, “feminist discourses about trans women, with emphasis on the question of inclusion into women’s spaces”, “microaggressions trans women and our partners face in queer and WLT* (Women, Lesbian, Trans*) spaces”, and “suggestions for active solidarity and ways to combat transmisogyny in our own social and political spaces". (x)
the World Health Organisation deleted their “Sex and Gender” page which defined sex as biological characteristics and gender as socially constructed roles that oppress women, and replaced it with a “Gender” page conflating sex and gender and highlighting the importance of recognising “identities that do not fit into the male and female sex categories” (x) The Times columnist Janice Turner commented, “I wrote a column today because when bodies as powerful as WHO, Planned Parenthood & the British Medical Association can’t say “women menstruate”, we are entering insanity.”
Man argues with himself as he tries to explain why lesbians need to include penis.
Didn’t he just say that he’s only attracted to cis women?
This is a hot fucking take.
Transwomen are completely and totally the exact same as “cis” women, but, mysteriously, only “cis” women give this straight dude a boner.
🧐
Something tells me he would cry “terf” at lesbians making the same claim about only being attracted to “cis” women.
Lmao “no meaningful definition of ‘ woman’ ” he says. Ppl only want a rigid definition to exclude ppl he says. Anshdjkw I can’t. I rlly can’t with this.
He really needs to have several seats and stfu with all that
Men who explain who women are to women need to stop
He ~excludes~ trans males from who he is attracted to which is akin to white people dehumanising and enslaving black people
If they are female then he is ~excluding~ them from his dating pool which makes him a bigot
How can there be subcategories of women if woman isn’t a meaningful category?
Keep reaching, sis.
You don’t have to be attracted to trans women to still be a lesbian. I don’t have to be attracted to trans women to be a straight man.
I’m attracted to who I’m attracted to and that doesn’t make me a bigot the same it wouldn’t make you a bigot.
The problem begins when you start excluding people from a group they belong to simply because you feel like gatekeeping or some stupid nonsense.
“You don’t have to be attracted to trans women to still be a lesbian”
You can’t be attracted to trans males to be a lesbian. That is the point.
It still doesn’t explain his conveniently ~exclusive~ genital preferences.
“I’m attracted to who I’m attracted to and that doesn’t make me a bigot the same it wouldn’t make you a bigot.”
Trans’lesbians’ say otherwise
“The problem begins when you start excluding people from a group they belong to”
Trans males don’t belong in the category of woman so there is no ~exclusion~
“simply because you feel like gatekeeping or some stupid nonsense.”
Having standards and basic qualifications on who belongs to a group isn’t “stupid nonsense” it is reality
Celtyradfem 