It legit pisses me off that feminists ignore the fact that circumcision happens all over the world in places where FGM happens too and it’s no cleaner nor humane when it’s getting done there too.
Any form of genital mutilation is bad and morally wrong and it happens to both genders whether it’s in a hospital or an unsanitary place. Stop acting like it’s a gendered issue. Stop elevating one gender over the other. Stop ignoring the pain and suffering boys are forced to go through just because you don’t care at all or you just care more about girls – that’s absolutely disgusting.
Enough is enough. Help end all genital mutilation.
For the record most feminists are against circumcision. With this post, you are scolding a women’s movement for not solving men’s problems. Mother’s aren’t holding down their 10 year old sons and cutting off their glans as with FGM. Fathers are asking male doctors and male religious leaders to cut the foreskin of their infant sons to please their god or so that their penis will look aesthetic. Yes, it’s bad but women are not responsible for causing it, and women aren’t responsible for fixing it. Please address your concerns to the MRAs or the many patriarchal religions that practice circumcision.
For the record, no they most certainly are not. I’m not even scolding feminists for not solving men’s problems at all, although many feminists claim that’s exactly what they’re doing for the sake of equality even as they actively hurt men. What this post is actually doing is calling out the ignorance and double standards that many feminists have on this matter. You literally are downplaying it here once again as you ignore how it happens in countries where FGM happens too.
Here’s an example. This isn’t any different from FGM and if you honestly think it is, you’re a sick individual and sexist as all hell.
Oh and MRAs are already working on issues like this! And for that matter, despite this not being the reason behind this post, many women are responsible for causing it! I have heard many women say they think intact penises are unattractive. I’ve heard many mothers say they’re going to get their sons cut because they find it more attractive. I’ve heard many women parrot the same old, disproved medical myths about circumcision, et cetera and so forth.
Thanks for all that anecdotal information about what you hear tell on your block. The mayo clinic recommends male circumision in the case of repeated infection. The mayo clinic does not recommend female circumcision under any circumstances. Perhaps you should send them an email about their outdated science?
Women aren’t ignoring anything, this is literally not our fight and we don’t have mention, think about, or pay lip service to men and their problems. Feminists can actually acknowledge something is bad without shouldering the responsibility to fix it.
In fact, the man in the notes who experienced it himself told you it wasn’t a big deal so I wonder why as a female this is the hill you wanna die on? Shouldn’t we be listening to the actual “victims” of this horrible crime?
Anyway, please print off your post and nail it to the door of the closest temple, church or hospital if you’re really about this life. Some men actually circumcise little boys for a living so unless you’re talking to them, you’re wasting your time. Godspeed, you dick crusader.
This is so disgusting. With fgm, women most of the time lose all ability to feel sexual pleasure while with circumcision you’re just cutting off a flab of skin which does some psychological damage to baby boys, while fgm ruins all a women’s sexual pleasure and traumatizes her. The two are incomparable. Circumcision is a problem but I’m not sorry that fgm is every feminist’s focus because why shouldn’t it be? Now I’m genuinely curious if you didn’t actually know that or you did and just wanted a spot to complain that “males aren’t included enough”
@the-defiant-pupil I can’t click on that link as a comment and I’m not sure if it really matters. Male circumcision is a breach of bodily autonomy and shouldn’t be performed on children as they cannot consent. However, male circumcision is not comparable to fgm. Female circumcision can be fatal, cause irreversible damage and pain to the genitals and is done to completely remove any ability of feeling pleasure. In some cases it can be so brutal that the opening is completely sealed off and is intended to be “ripped open” by their husbands when they get married. It’s barbaric, immoral, and is done to control female sexuality. The context for both procedures is completely different. Saying male circumcision is “just as bad” is not only objectively untrue but it’s insulting.
Women finding circumcized penises more attractive isn’t oppression, if anything it’s because our society has normalized it ( like hairless women ). It needs to be addressed for sure, but it’s not a problem women created.
Fgm is done because women are seen as property and sexual outlets for men. It’s done for “purity” and it controls women’s bodies and it removes their autonomy. A lot of these women are tortured and cannot have a normal sex life because of it. Fgm can cause a myriad of health problems, where male circumcision does not. If men can still be healthy, happy, and sexually functional, it’s in no way comparable.
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I can’t click on that link as a comment and I’m not sure if it really matters.
It does matter as you show in the rest of this post.
In case it helps any, both the person in the link I was debating with and the man mentioned by parttimepup changed their minds and their positions on the matter.
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However, male circumcision is not comparable to fgm.
I wasn’t even comparing them. I went out of my way to not compare them because I knew it would cause hostility when that’s not what I wanted. I just got sick and tired of seeing feminists downplay MGM, especially when they’re ignorant towards what happens all around the world.
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Female circumcision can be fatal, cause irreversible damage and pain to the genitals
This happens with male circumcision as well. Approximately 117 babies die per year in America alone from botched circumcisions. This doesn’t add in Canada and the rest of Europe as well as third world countries that practice MGM in the same manner as FGM where it’s done by the same people (as in not necessarily doctors) in dirty, unsanitary places so the mortality rate would be even higher in those places than in first world countries. Same as if FMG happened in the first world as well, except we don’t do that of course.
And many male circumcisions result in irreversible damage and pain to the genitals, even to the point of not being able to have sex at all.
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and is done to completely remove any ability of feeling pleasure.
Not necessarily. Not only can many women still experience sexual pleasure and orgasm (there’s links to this in the post I provided you), but FGM is most commonly supported and carried out by other women in these communities. They do it for the same reason that North America does MGM. They think it’s cleaner, healthier, more attractive, et cetera and so forth.
And as I’ve stated above, MGM can result in ruining sex for men as well. It’s not just a woman only thing. Both sets of victims are at risk of death and injury.
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It’s barbaric, immoral, and is done to control female sexuality.
So is male circumcision. The reason why it’s popular in North America is because Dr. Kellogg came up with it as a way to curb masturbation in children and teenagers. He also proposed female circumcision but thankfully that didn’t take off in North America. The health benefits myth came after the fact in order to justify mutilating infants and now they keep at it because the medical community actually sells infant foreskins for a huge profit.
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Saying male circumcision is “just as bad” is not only objectively untrue but it’s insulting.
Like I said already, I specifically avoided comparing them in terms of which one is worse because I knew it would cause knee-jerk reactions. Apparently even specifically going out of my way to avoid comparing them like that still gets a knee-jerk reaction as quite a few feminists have completely missed the point of this and assumed I was directly comparing them. I was comparing the conditions that both forms of genital mutilation is performed in, in third world countries.
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Women finding circumcized penises more attractive isn’t oppression, if anything it’s because our society has normalized it ( like hairless women ). It needs to be addressed for sure, but it’s not a problem women created.
I never said it was oppression, although it is the violation of human rights so it’s pretty close. More importantly, beyond the fact that I never blamed any of this on women to begin with, this statement is just odd – are women not part of society then? Beyond that, I’ve seen mothers say they circumcised their son(s) just because they think it’s more attractive and many of them keep to that even when you show them that the health benefits are a myth and all the problems associated with MGM (psychological trauma, pain for life, inability to have sex, the loss of the genitals entirely, death, et cetera). Not all women are responsible for this violation of rights, but some of them are. That’s just a fact.
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Fgm is done because women are seen as property and sexual outlets for men.
Again, FGM is most supported and enforced by other women. This is in the sources of the post I linked you to. I’m not saying these places don’t have issues with misogyny as they clearly do, however the western notion that women in third world countries are all victims with no agency at all is misogynistic as well as racist. I don’t have the article anymore, but I once saw an African woman talk about how the “white saviors” are treating them all as “brown savages” and how racist it is and how it’s not appreciated or wanted. Just some food for thought.
(Note: this food for thought isn’t me defending FGM of course. It’s me being against treating women like they’re 100% victimized dolls, basically.)
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It’s done for “purity” and it controls women’s bodies and it removes their autonomy.
Oddly enough, you’re also removing their autonomy. Again, I don’t agree with FGM, but the fact that many women have no problem with it and openly support it and encourage it is their autonomy.
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A lot of these women are tortured and cannot have a normal sex life because of it.
A lot of them also can, to the point where in one of my sources an anthropologist asked a circumcised woman if she can receive sexual pleasure/orgasm and both the woman and the translator burst into such intense laughter that they fell off their chairs and it took them quite a time to regain composure.
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Fgm can cause a myriad of health problems, where male circumcision does not.
I know I’m repeating myself by this point and I’m sorry about that, but I’m nothing if not thorough. Here’s just some of the problems associated with male circumcision: PTSD symptoms, lowered pain tolerance, psychological loss of confidence as they grow up, painful erections, inability to become erect, dried out glans and loss of important function in the penis, complete loss of genitals (this is what happened to David Reimer and started a long torturous journey where him and his twin brother were abused by a doctor and both men ended up committing suicide later in life), death, and more.
> If men can still be healthy, happy, and sexually functional, it’s in no way comparable.
Men can still be healthy, happy, and somewhat (but not fully) sexually functional after circumcision, yes, however there’s also many who can’t and who aren’t. This also goes for circumcised women – some can be healthy, happy, and (somewhat) sexually functional. Either way though, whether the person in question is mostly okay or most definitely not, male or female, violating their human right to bodily autonomy was wrong and the practices should be stopped.
Are you…serious?
There is so much bullshit to unpack here I’m honestly overwhelmed. Not only did you tag me on a post I merely reblogged and added no content to, but your arguments are so poorly constructed and it’s just baffling how you can imply that male circumcision is somehow more dangerous than fgm. Fgm has a higher body count. Do you know why women perform these sadistic acts? It’s because they live in an oppressive society and believe they’re doing it for protection. Mother’s will hold down their daughters and mutilate them because they’re taught that their only purpose in life is to serve men, and their culture reinforces this. American mother’s will hold their daughters down and apply makeup or shave their legs, women can perpetuate misogyny, but it doesn’t mean women are the cause of their oppression lmao.
Have you ever listened to any fgm survivors? Literally read what Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie has to say about it. Most fgm survivors would not tell you that they were nearly unaffected by this torture. I’ve literally never read or heard of any fgm survivor saying they ended up liking what happened to them. For most women it is a traumatic nightmare.
You’re saying you’re not defending fgm but you literally are. You’re cherry picking scenarios that make light of this awful experience by saying SOME WOMEN like it. It’s not a matter of what is liked, it’s a matter of how fgm is a tool of oppression. Have you googled what fgm looks like and the different levels of severity includes? Do you know that even the most basic and “less horrific” of these procedures can kill? Removing any functional and healthy part of the vagina/vulva can induce all the same things that you claim circumcision does to men. Removing foreskin is not the same as removing a clitoris, labia, or sewing the vagina shut and literally nothing you can spew will change my mind.
People are having a bad reaction to your post because it’s offensive and wildly tone deaf. This is the last reply im making on this shit cause wow the ignorance is too much for me to handle.
This misogynist: “~*none of you meany feminists care about male circumcision!!! How dare you not center males in your feminism!!*~”
Multiple feminists: “uh, yes we do care. We’re against all genital mutilation.”
This misogynist: “waaaah no you don’t you dirty liars! I can read your minds and NO feminists CARE about the POOR MALE BABIES!! In FACT, I saw a feminist SPIT on a BABY one time!!!! Misandry is real!!! ***‘I’m an adult virgin’ plays to the tune of the ghostbusters song***”
I know this might be shocking to you, OP, but FEMinism is for…wait for it….FEMALES. It’s not our fucking job to prioritize males of any age in our activism. The reason we speak about FGM is because it effects, you know, women. But go ahead, fight to end circumcision! No one gives a shit! It’s actually a great cause to support! It’s just not a feminist cause, and it’s not our responsibility to help you. You wouldn’t ask Black Lives Matter to dedicate their time helping you save the damn rainforest, would you? No, of course not. So don’t ask feminists to sacrifice our movement for something that has nothing to do with us. That doesn’t mean feminists are evil. Just like it doesn’t mean BLM hate trees. I can’t believe that’s such a hard fucking concept to grasp.
As for your bullshit insistence that male circumcision is in any way comparable to female genital mutilation, OP, all I can say is this: shut the fuck up, you willfully ignorant, lying, misogynistic, fucking monster. Fuck you.
Me: “I don’t like it when feminists talk about things they’re ignorant about and paint all instances of MGM as a first world thing done to babies only. It’s done to children, teenagers, and adult men in third world countries in the same unsanitary conditions as FGM is performed in. We need to end all forms of genital mutilation though because both are bad and a violation of rights.
A bunch of feminists: “REEEEEEEE How dare you directly compare FGM to just snipping of a little bit of unimportant skin!? Don’t you know FGM has all these bad effects 100% of the time and no male has ever suffered in any way from circumcision? Wow, you’re such a fucking ignorant misogynist!”
Me: “Actually, I made sure to not directly compare the two forms of genital mutilation because that’s not the point of this post so no, I’m not comparing them. Also, you’re misinformed on some things here. MGM can result in health problems, permanent damage, psychological trauma, and death as well. Here’s some information about the misconception about circumcision that you seem to have. On top of that, here’s some additional information on FGM as well.”
This illiterate moron who has access to all of this information and more: “REEEE YOU FILTHY MISOGYNISTIC LYING ASSHOLE FUCK YOU FOR COMPARING CIRCUMCISION TO FGM EVEN THOUGH YOU’VE DIRECTLY STATED A BUNCH OF TIMES THAT YOU’RE NOT. ALSO ALSO ALSO HOW DARE YOU THINK FEMINISTS OWE MEN ANYTHING AND THAT WE HAVE TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE DESPITE YOU LITERALLY NEVER HAVING SAID THAT AT ALL? WAHHHHHH I CAN’T READ AT ALL AND ESPECIALLY NOT YOUR SOURCES SO I’LL JUST PROVE YOUR ORIGINAL POINT FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME AS I CRY AND THROW INSULTS1!!!”
Me at this point, while slowly sinking into alcoholism:
And lastly, have this gif because it’s so fucking accurate. Holy shit.
“I don’t like it when feminists talk about things they’re ignorant about and paint all instances of MGM as a first world thing done to babies only. It’s done to children, teenagers, and adult men in third world countries in the same unsanitary conditions as FGM is performed in.“
"About 80 percent of the world’s population do not practice circumcision, nor have they ever done so. Among the non-circumcising nations are Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Scandinavia, the U.S.S.R., China, and Japan. People employing circumcision do so either for "health” reasons or as a religious ritual practiced by Muslims, Jews, most black Africans, non-white Australians, and others.“
Circumcision is largely out of practice and confined to cultural and religious groups.
The United States seems to be the only Western country that still routinely practices circumcision.
"We need to end all forms of genital mutilation though because both are bad and a violation of rights.”
This is a comparison to FGM.
““REEEEEEEE How dare you directly compare FGM to just snipping of a little bit of unimportant skin!?
The removal of the penis glans is unimportant compared to the butchering of the labia and cutting of the clitoris.
"Don’t you know FGM has all these bad effects 100% of the time”
FGM always has negative effects 100% of the time you shit for brains moron.
The World Health Organisation lists the effects of FGM on women and girls who have been mutilated:
Long-term health risks from Types I, II and III (occurring at any time during life)
Pain: due to tissue damage and scarring that may result in trapped or unprotected nerve endings.
Infections:
Chronic genital infections: with consequent chronic pain, and vaginal discharge and itching. Cysts, abscesses and genital ulcers may also appear.
Chronic reproductive tract infections: May cause chronic back and pelvic pain.
Urinary tract infections: If not treated, such infections can ascend to the kidneys, potentially resulting in renal failure, septicaemia and death. An increased risk for repeated urinary tract infections is well documented in both girls and adult women.
Chronic genital infections: with consequent chronic pain, and vaginal discharge and itching. Cysts, abscesses and genital ulcers may also appear.
Chronic reproductive tract infections: May cause chronic back and pelvic pain.
Urinary tract infections: If not treated, such infections can ascend to the kidneys, potentially resulting in renal failure, septicaemia and death. An increased risk for repeated urinary tract infections is well documented in both girls and adult women.
Painful urination: due to obstruction of the urethra and recurrent urinary tract infections.
Menstrual problems: result from the obstruction of the vaginal opening. This may lead to painful menstruation (dysmenorrhea), irregular menses and difficulty in passing menstrual blood, particularly among women with Type III FGM.
Keloids: there have been reports of excessive scar tissue formation at the site of the cutting.
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV): given that the transmission of HIV is facilitated through trauma of the vaginal epithelium which allows the direct introduction of the virus, it is reasonable to presume that the risk of HIV transmission may be increased due to increased risk for bleeding during intercourse, as a result of FGM.
Female sexual health: removal of, or damage to highly sensitive genital tissue, especially the clitoris, may affect sexual sensitivity and lead to sexual problems, such as decreased sexual desire and pleasure, pain during sex, difficulty during penetration, decreased lubrication during intercourse, reduced frequency or absence of orgasm (anorgasmia). Scar formation, pain and traumatic memories associated with the procedure can also lead to such problems.
Obstetric complications: FGM is associated with an increased risk of Caesarean section, post-partum haemorrhage, recourse to episiotomy, difficult labour, obstetric tears/lacerations, instrumental delivery, prolonged labour, and extended maternal hospital stay. The risks increase with the severity of FGM.
Obstetric fistula: a direct association between FGM and obstetric fistula has not been established. However, given the causal relationship between prolonged and obstructed labour and fistula, and the fact that FGM is also associated with prolonged and obstructed labour it is reasonable to presume that both conditions could be linked in women living with FGM.
Perinatal risks: obstetric complications can result in a higher incidence of infant resuscitation at delivery and intrapartum stillbirth and neonatal death.
Psychological consequences: some studies have shown an increased likelihood of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety disorders and depression. The cultural significance of FGM might not protect against psychological complications.
“and no male has ever suffered in any way from circumcision?”
Like any surgical procedure, there are risks associated with circumcision. However, this risk is low. Problems associated with circumcision include:
Pain
Risk of bleeding and infection at the site of the circumcision
Irritation of the glans
Increased risk of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis)
Risk of injury to the penis
These seem to be temporary effects.
The article lists the health benefits of circumcision as well.
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).
Now compare the effects of FGM and circumcision and compare the health benefits of circumcision to the zero health benefits of FGM.
Are they comparable?
“Wow, you’re such a fucking ignorant misogynist!””
You are a fucking ignorant misogynist.
“Actually, I made sure to not directly compare the two forms of genital mutilation because that’s not the point of this post so no, I’m not comparing them.”
Using the term MGM is comparing it to FGM.
Own up to it.
“Also, you’re misinformed on some things here. MGM can result in health problems, permanent damage, psychological trauma, and death as well.”
Many healthcare professionals such as the American Academy of Pediatrics Task Force don’t agree with you.
“Here’s some information about the misconception about circumcision that you seem to have.”
Which nobody asked for.
“On top of that, here’s some additional information on FGM as well.”
Putting up information about FGM as a token doesn’t mean anything.
“REEEE YOU FILTHY MISOGYNISTIC LYING ASSHOLE FUCK YOU FOR COMPARING CIRCUMCISION TO FGM EVEN THOUGH YOU’VE DIRECTLY STATED A BUNCH OF TIMES THAT YOU’RE NOT.”
You are calling circumcision “MGM”.
That is a comparison to FGM.
“ALSO ALSO ALSO HOW DARE YOU THINK FEMINISTS OWE MEN ANYTHING AND THAT WE HAVE TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE DESPITE YOU LITERALLY NEVER HAVING SAID THAT AT ALL?”
You are lying. The first post was you demanding that we drop what we are doing and work on ending circumcision.
It legit pisses me off that feminists ignore the fact that circumcision happens all over the world in places where FGM happens too and it’s no cleaner nor humane when it’s getting done there too.
Any form of genital mutilation is bad and morally wrong and it happens to both genders whether it’s in a hospital or an unsanitary place. Stop acting like it’s a gendered issue. Stop elevating one gender over the other. Stop ignoring the pain and suffering boys are forced to go through just because you don’t care at all or you just care more about girls – that’s absolutely disgusting.
Enough is enough. Help end all genital mutilation.
For the record most feminists are against circumcision. With this post, you are scolding a women’s movement for not solving men’s problems. Mother’s aren’t holding down their 10 year old sons and cutting off their glans as with FGM. Fathers are asking male doctors and male religious leaders to cut the foreskin of their infant sons to please their god or so that their penis will look aesthetic. Yes, it’s bad but women are not responsible for causing it, and women aren’t responsible for fixing it. Please address your concerns to the MRAs or the many patriarchal religions that practice circumcision.
For the record, no they most certainly are not. I’m not even scolding feminists for not solving men’s problems at all, although many feminists claim that’s exactly what they’re doing for the sake of equality even as they actively hurt men. What this post is actually doing is calling out the ignorance and double standards that many feminists have on this matter. You literally are downplaying it here once again as you ignore how it happens in countries where FGM happens too.
Here’s an example. This isn’t any different from FGM and if you honestly think it is, you’re a sick individual and sexist as all hell.
Oh and MRAs are already working on issues like this! And for that matter, despite this not being the reason behind this post, many women are responsible for causing it! I have heard many women say they think intact penises are unattractive. I’ve heard many mothers say they’re going to get their sons cut because they find it more attractive. I’ve heard many women parrot the same old, disproved medical myths about circumcision, et cetera and so forth.
Thanks for all that anecdotal information about what you hear tell on your block. The mayo clinic recommends male circumision in the case of repeated infection. The mayo clinic does not recommend female circumcision under any circumstances. Perhaps you should send them an email about their outdated science?
Women aren’t ignoring anything, this is literally not our fight and we don’t have mention, think about, or pay lip service to men and their problems. Feminists can actually acknowledge something is bad without shouldering the responsibility to fix it.
In fact, the man in the notes who experienced it himself told you it wasn’t a big deal so I wonder why as a female this is the hill you wanna die on? Shouldn’t we be listening to the actual “victims” of this horrible crime?
Anyway, please print off your post and nail it to the door of the closest temple, church or hospital if you’re really about this life. Some men actually circumcise little boys for a living so unless you’re talking to them, you’re wasting your time. Godspeed, you dick crusader.
This is so disgusting. With fgm, women most of the time lose all ability to feel sexual pleasure while with circumcision you’re just cutting off a flab of skin which does some psychological damage to baby boys, while fgm ruins all a women’s sexual pleasure and traumatizes her. The two are incomparable. Circumcision is a problem but I’m not sorry that fgm is every feminist’s focus because why shouldn’t it be? Now I’m genuinely curious if you didn’t actually know that or you did and just wanted a spot to complain that “males aren’t included enough”
@the-defiant-pupil I can’t click on that link as a comment and I’m not sure if it really matters. Male circumcision is a breach of bodily autonomy and shouldn’t be performed on children as they cannot consent. However, male circumcision is not comparable to fgm. Female circumcision can be fatal, cause irreversible damage and pain to the genitals and is done to completely remove any ability of feeling pleasure. In some cases it can be so brutal that the opening is completely sealed off and is intended to be “ripped open” by their husbands when they get married. It’s barbaric, immoral, and is done to control female sexuality. The context for both procedures is completely different. Saying male circumcision is “just as bad” is not only objectively untrue but it’s insulting.
Women finding circumcized penises more attractive isn’t oppression, if anything it’s because our society has normalized it ( like hairless women ). It needs to be addressed for sure, but it’s not a problem women created.
Fgm is done because women are seen as property and sexual outlets for men. It’s done for “purity” and it controls women’s bodies and it removes their autonomy. A lot of these women are tortured and cannot have a normal sex life because of it. Fgm can cause a myriad of health problems, where male circumcision does not. If men can still be healthy, happy, and sexually functional, it’s in no way comparable.
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I can’t click on that link as a comment and I’m not sure if it really matters.
It does matter as you show in the rest of this post.
In case it helps any, both the person in the link I was debating with and the man mentioned by parttimepup changed their minds and their positions on the matter.
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However, male circumcision is not comparable to fgm.
I wasn’t even comparing them. I went out of my way to not compare them because I knew it would cause hostility when that’s not what I wanted. I just got sick and tired of seeing feminists downplay MGM, especially when they’re ignorant towards what happens all around the world.
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Female circumcision can be fatal, cause irreversible damage and pain to the genitals
This happens with male circumcision as well. Approximately 117 babies die per year in America alone from botched circumcisions. This doesn’t add in Canada and the rest of Europe as well as third world countries that practice MGM in the same manner as FGM where it’s done by the same people (as in not necessarily doctors) in dirty, unsanitary places so the mortality rate would be even higher in those places than in first world countries. Same as if FMG happened in the first world as well, except we don’t do that of course.
And many male circumcisions result in irreversible damage and pain to the genitals, even to the point of not being able to have sex at all.
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and is done to completely remove any ability of feeling pleasure.
Not necessarily. Not only can many women still experience sexual pleasure and orgasm (there’s links to this in the post I provided you), but FGM is most commonly supported and carried out by other women in these communities. They do it for the same reason that North America does MGM. They think it’s cleaner, healthier, more attractive, et cetera and so forth.
And as I’ve stated above, MGM can result in ruining sex for men as well. It’s not just a woman only thing. Both sets of victims are at risk of death and injury.
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It’s barbaric, immoral, and is done to control female sexuality.
So is male circumcision. The reason why it’s popular in North America is because Dr. Kellogg came up with it as a way to curb masturbation in children and teenagers. He also proposed female circumcision but thankfully that didn’t take off in North America. The health benefits myth came after the fact in order to justify mutilating infants and now they keep at it because the medical community actually sells infant foreskins for a huge profit.
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Saying male circumcision is “just as bad” is not only objectively untrue but it’s insulting.
Like I said already, I specifically avoided comparing them in terms of which one is worse because I knew it would cause knee-jerk reactions. Apparently even specifically going out of my way to avoid comparing them like that still gets a knee-jerk reaction as quite a few feminists have completely missed the point of this and assumed I was directly comparing them. I was comparing the conditions that both forms of genital mutilation is performed in, in third world countries.
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Women finding circumcized penises more attractive isn’t oppression, if anything it’s because our society has normalized it ( like hairless women ). It needs to be addressed for sure, but it’s not a problem women created.
I never said it was oppression, although it is the violation of human rights so it’s pretty close. More importantly, beyond the fact that I never blamed any of this on women to begin with, this statement is just odd – are women not part of society then? Beyond that, I’ve seen mothers say they circumcised their son(s) just because they think it’s more attractive and many of them keep to that even when you show them that the health benefits are a myth and all the problems associated with MGM (psychological trauma, pain for life, inability to have sex, the loss of the genitals entirely, death, et cetera). Not all women are responsible for this violation of rights, but some of them are. That’s just a fact.
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Fgm is done because women are seen as property and sexual outlets for men.
Again, FGM is most supported and enforced by other women. This is in the sources of the post I linked you to. I’m not saying these places don’t have issues with misogyny as they clearly do, however the western notion that women in third world countries are all victims with no agency at all is misogynistic as well as racist. I don’t have the article anymore, but I once saw an African woman talk about how the “white saviors” are treating them all as “brown savages” and how racist it is and how it’s not appreciated or wanted. Just some food for thought.
(Note: this food for thought isn’t me defending FGM of course. It’s me being against treating women like they’re 100% victimized dolls, basically.)
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It’s done for “purity” and it controls women’s bodies and it removes their autonomy.
Oddly enough, you’re also removing their autonomy. Again, I don’t agree with FGM, but the fact that many women have no problem with it and openly support it and encourage it is their autonomy.
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A lot of these women are tortured and cannot have a normal sex life because of it.
A lot of them also can, to the point where in one of my sources an anthropologist asked a circumcised woman if she can receive sexual pleasure/orgasm and both the woman and the translator burst into such intense laughter that they fell off their chairs and it took them quite a time to regain composure.
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Fgm can cause a myriad of health problems, where male circumcision does not.
I know I’m repeating myself by this point and I’m sorry about that, but I’m nothing if not thorough. Here’s just some of the problems associated with male circumcision: PTSD symptoms, lowered pain tolerance, psychological loss of confidence as they grow up, painful erections, inability to become erect, dried out glans and loss of important function in the penis, complete loss of genitals (this is what happened to David Reimer and started a long torturous journey where him and his twin brother were abused by a doctor and both men ended up committing suicide later in life), death, and more.
> If men can still be healthy, happy, and sexually functional, it’s in no way comparable.
Men can still be healthy, happy, and somewhat (but not fully) sexually functional after circumcision, yes, however there’s also many who can’t and who aren’t. This also goes for circumcised women – some can be healthy, happy, and (somewhat) sexually functional. Either way though, whether the person in question is mostly okay or most definitely not, male or female, violating their human right to bodily autonomy was wrong and the practices should be stopped.
Are you…serious?
There is so much bullshit to unpack here I’m honestly overwhelmed. Not only did you tag me on a post I merely reblogged and added no content to, but your arguments are so poorly constructed and it’s just baffling how you can imply that male circumcision is somehow more dangerous than fgm. Fgm has a higher body count. Do you know why women perform these sadistic acts? It’s because they live in an oppressive society and believe they’re doing it for protection. Mother’s will hold down their daughters and mutilate them because they’re taught that their only purpose in life is to serve men, and their culture reinforces this. American mother’s will hold their daughters down and apply makeup or shave their legs, women can perpetuate misogyny, but it doesn’t mean women are the cause of their oppression lmao.
Have you ever listened to any fgm survivors? Literally read what Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie has to say about it. Most fgm survivors would not tell you that they were nearly unaffected by this torture. I’ve literally never read or heard of any fgm survivor saying they ended up liking what happened to them. For most women it is a traumatic nightmare.
You’re saying you’re not defending fgm but you literally are. You’re cherry picking scenarios that make light of this awful experience by saying SOME WOMEN like it. It’s not a matter of what is liked, it’s a matter of how fgm is a tool of oppression. Have you googled what fgm looks like and the different levels of severity includes? Do you know that even the most basic and “less horrific” of these procedures can kill? Removing any functional and healthy part of the vagina/vulva can induce all the same things that you claim circumcision does to men. Removing foreskin is not the same as removing a clitoris, labia, or sewing the vagina shut and literally nothing you can spew will change my mind.
People are having a bad reaction to your post because it’s offensive and wildly tone deaf. This is the last reply im making on this shit cause wow the ignorance is too much for me to handle.
This misogynist: “~*none of you meany feminists care about male circumcision!!! How dare you not center males in your feminism!!*~”
Multiple feminists: “uh, yes we do care. We’re against all genital mutilation.”
This misogynist: “waaaah no you don’t you dirty liars! I can read your minds and NO feminists CARE about the POOR MALE BABIES!! In FACT, I saw a feminist SPIT on a BABY one time!!!! Misandry is real!!! ***‘I’m an adult virgin’ plays to the tune of the ghostbusters song***”
I know this might be shocking to you, OP, but FEMinism is for…wait for it….FEMALES. It’s not our fucking job to prioritize males of any age in our activism. The reason we speak about FGM is because it effects, you know, women. But go ahead, fight to end circumcision! No one gives a shit! It’s actually a great cause to support! It’s just not a feminist cause, and it’s not our responsibility to help you. You wouldn’t ask Black Lives Matter to dedicate their time helping you save the damn rainforest, would you? No, of course not. So don’t ask feminists to sacrifice our movement for something that has nothing to do with us. That doesn’t mean feminists are evil. Just like it doesn’t mean BLM hate trees. I can’t believe that’s such a hard fucking concept to grasp.
As for your bullshit insistence that male circumcision is in any way comparable to female genital mutilation, OP, all I can say is this: shut the fuck up, you willfully ignorant, lying, misogynistic, fucking monster. Fuck you.
Me: “I don’t like it when feminists talk about things they’re ignorant about and paint all instances of MGM as a first world thing done to babies only. It’s done to children, teenagers, and adult men in third world countries in the same unsanitary conditions as FGM is performed in. We need to end all forms of genital mutilation though because both are bad and a violation of rights.
A bunch of feminists: “REEEEEEEE How dare you directly compare FGM to just snipping of a little bit of unimportant skin!? Don’t you know FGM has all these bad effects 100% of the time and no male has ever suffered in any way from circumcision? Wow, you’re such a fucking ignorant misogynist!”
Me: “Actually, I made sure to not directly compare the two forms of genital mutilation because that’s not the point of this post so no, I’m not comparing them. Also, you’re misinformed on some things here. MGM can result in health problems, permanent damage, psychological trauma, and death as well. Here’s some information about the misconception about circumcision that you seem to have. On top of that, here’s some additional information on FGM as well.”
This illiterate moron who has access to all of this information and more: “REEEE YOU FILTHY MISOGYNISTIC LYING ASSHOLE FUCK YOU FOR COMPARING CIRCUMCISION TO FGM EVEN THOUGH YOU’VE DIRECTLY STATED A BUNCH OF TIMES THAT YOU’RE NOT. ALSO ALSO ALSO HOW DARE YOU THINK FEMINISTS OWE MEN ANYTHING AND THAT WE HAVE TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE DESPITE YOU LITERALLY NEVER HAVING SAID THAT AT ALL? WAHHHHHH I CAN’T READ AT ALL AND ESPECIALLY NOT YOUR SOURCES SO I’LL JUST PROVE YOUR ORIGINAL POINT FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME AS I CRY AND THROW INSULTS1!!!”
Me at this point, while slowly sinking into alcoholism:
And lastly, have this gif because it’s so fucking accurate. Holy shit.
“I don’t like it when feminists talk about things they’re ignorant about and paint all instances of MGM as a first world thing done to babies only. It’s done to children, teenagers, and adult men in third world countries in the same unsanitary conditions as FGM is performed in.“
"About 80 percent of the world’s population do not practice circumcision, nor have they ever done so. Among the non-circumcising nations are Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Scandinavia, the U.S.S.R., China, and Japan. People employing circumcision do so either for "health” reasons or as a religious ritual practiced by Muslims, Jews, most black Africans, non-white Australians, and others.“
Circumcision is largely out of practice and confined to cultural and religious groups.
The United States seems to be the only Western country that still routinely practices circumcision.
"We need to end all forms of genital mutilation though because both are bad and a violation of rights.”
This is a comparison to FGM.
““REEEEEEEE How dare you directly compare FGM to just snipping of a little bit of unimportant skin!?
The removal of the penis glans is unimportant compared to the butchering of the labia and cutting of the clitoris.
"Don’t you know FGM has all these bad effects 100% of the time”
FGM always has negative effects 100% of the time you shit for brains moron.
The World Health Organisation lists the effects of FGM on women and girls who have been mutilated:
Long-term health risks from Types I, II and III (occurring at any time during life)
Pain: due to tissue damage and scarring that may result in trapped or unprotected nerve endings.
Infections:
Chronic genital infections: with consequent chronic pain, and vaginal discharge and itching. Cysts, abscesses and genital ulcers may also appear.
Chronic reproductive tract infections: May cause chronic back and pelvic pain.
Urinary tract infections: If not treated, such infections can ascend to the kidneys, potentially resulting in renal failure, septicaemia and death. An increased risk for repeated urinary tract infections is well documented in both girls and adult women.
Chronic genital infections: with consequent chronic pain, and vaginal discharge and itching. Cysts, abscesses and genital ulcers may also appear.
Chronic reproductive tract infections: May cause chronic back and pelvic pain.
Urinary tract infections: If not treated, such infections can ascend to the kidneys, potentially resulting in renal failure, septicaemia and death. An increased risk for repeated urinary tract infections is well documented in both girls and adult women.
Painful urination: due to obstruction of the urethra and recurrent urinary tract infections.
Menstrual problems: result from the obstruction of the vaginal opening. This may lead to painful menstruation (dysmenorrhea), irregular menses and difficulty in passing menstrual blood, particularly among women with Type III FGM.
Keloids: there have been reports of excessive scar tissue formation at the site of the cutting.
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV): given that the transmission of HIV is facilitated through trauma of the vaginal epithelium which allows the direct introduction of the virus, it is reasonable to presume that the risk of HIV transmission may be increased due to increased risk for bleeding during intercourse, as a result of FGM.
Female sexual health: removal of, or damage to highly sensitive genital tissue, especially the clitoris, may affect sexual sensitivity and lead to sexual problems, such as decreased sexual desire and pleasure, pain during sex, difficulty during penetration, decreased lubrication during intercourse, reduced frequency or absence of orgasm (anorgasmia). Scar formation, pain and traumatic memories associated with the procedure can also lead to such problems.
Obstetric complications: FGM is associated with an increased risk of Caesarean section, post-partum haemorrhage, recourse to episiotomy, difficult labour, obstetric tears/lacerations, instrumental delivery, prolonged labour, and extended maternal hospital stay. The risks increase with the severity of FGM.
Obstetric fistula: a direct association between FGM and obstetric fistula has not been established. However, given the causal relationship between prolonged and obstructed labour and fistula, and the fact that FGM is also associated with prolonged and obstructed labour it is reasonable to presume that both conditions could be linked in women living with FGM.
Perinatal risks: obstetric complications can result in a higher incidence of infant resuscitation at delivery and intrapartum stillbirth and neonatal death.
Psychological consequences: some studies have shown an increased likelihood of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), anxiety disorders and depression. The cultural significance of FGM might not protect against psychological complications.
“and no male has ever suffered in any way from circumcision?”
Like any surgical procedure, there are risks associated with circumcision. However, this risk is low. Problems associated with circumcision include:
Pain
Risk of bleeding and infection at the site of the circumcision
Irritation of the glans
Increased risk of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis)
Risk of injury to the penis
These seem to be temporary effects.
The article lists the health benefits of circumcision as well.
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).
Now compare the effects of FGM and circumcision and compare the health benefits of circumcision to the zero health benefits of FGM.
Are they comparable?
“Wow, you’re such a fucking ignorant misogynist!””
You are a fucking ignorant misogynist.
“Actually, I made sure to not directly compare the two forms of genital mutilation because that’s not the point of this post so no, I’m not comparing them.”
Using the term MGM is comparing it to FGM.
Own up to it.
“Also, you’re misinformed on some things here. MGM can result in health problems, permanent damage, psychological trauma, and death as well.”
Many healthcare professionals such as the American Academy of Pediatrics Task Force don’t agree with you.
“Here’s some information about the misconception about circumcision that you seem to have.”
Which nobody asked for.
“On top of that, here’s some additional information on FGM as well.”
Putting up information about FGM as a token doesn’t mean anything.
“REEEE YOU FILTHY MISOGYNISTIC LYING ASSHOLE FUCK YOU FOR COMPARING CIRCUMCISION TO FGM EVEN THOUGH YOU’VE DIRECTLY STATED A BUNCH OF TIMES THAT YOU’RE NOT.”
You are calling circumcision “MGM”.
That is a comparison to FGM.
“ALSO ALSO ALSO HOW DARE YOU THINK FEMINISTS OWE MEN ANYTHING AND THAT WE HAVE TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE DESPITE YOU LITERALLY NEVER HAVING SAID THAT AT ALL?”
You are lying. The first post was you demanding that we drop what we are doing and work on ending circumcision.
“i feel like my inner girl is still like 10..” BIGGEST YIKES
quick question: why are none of them ever an age appropriate female self?
its cause theyre pedophiles 😦
They’ll claim there’s no such thing as a common experience of girlhood, but damned if they don’t make up stories about what it was like and then spend the rest of their lives complaining that they didn’t get that.
They tried ruining the #sharedgirlhood tag on Twitter out of jealousy and their stupid handmaidens oblige then they claim they had a girlhood too
So what was the point of shutting down the #sharedgirlhood tag?
“i feel like my inner girl is still like 10..” BIGGEST YIKES
quick question: why are none of them ever an age appropriate female self?
its cause theyre pedophiles 😦
They’ll claim there’s no such thing as a common experience of girlhood, but damned if they don’t make up stories about what it was like and then spend the rest of their lives complaining that they didn’t get that.
They tried ruining the #sharedgirlhood tag on Twitter out of jealousy and their stupid handmaidens oblige then they claim they had a girlhood too
So what was the point of shutting down the #sharedgirlhood tag?
It legit pisses me off that feminists ignore the fact that circumcision happens all over the world in places where FGM happens too and it’s no cleaner nor humane when it’s getting done there too.
Any form of genital mutilation is bad and morally wrong and it happens to both genders whether it’s in a hospital or an unsanitary place. Stop acting like it’s a gendered issue. Stop elevating one gender over the other. Stop ignoring the pain and suffering boys are forced to go through just because you don’t care at all or you just care more about girls – that’s absolutely disgusting.
Enough is enough. Help end all genital mutilation.
For the record most feminists are against circumcision. With this post, you are scolding a women’s movement for not solving men’s problems. Mother’s aren’t holding down their 10 year old sons and cutting off their glans as with FGM. Fathers are asking male doctors and male religious leaders to cut the foreskin of their infant sons to please their god or so that their penis will look aesthetic. Yes, it’s bad but women are not responsible for causing it, and women aren’t responsible for fixing it. Please address your concerns to the MRAs or the many patriarchal religions that practice circumcision.
For the record, no they most certainly are not. I’m not even scolding feminists for not solving men’s problems at all, although many feminists claim that’s exactly what they’re doing for the sake of equality even as they actively hurt men. What this post is actually doing is calling out the ignorance and double standards that many feminists have on this matter. You literally are downplaying it here once again as you ignore how it happens in countries where FGM happens too.
Here’s an example. This isn’t any different from FGM and if you honestly think it is, you’re a sick individual and sexist as all hell.
Oh and MRAs are already working on issues like this! And for that matter, despite this not being the reason behind this post, many women are responsible for causing it! I have heard many women say they think intact penises are unattractive. I’ve heard many mothers say they’re going to get their sons cut because they find it more attractive. I’ve heard many women parrot the same old, disproved medical myths about circumcision, et cetera and so forth.
Thanks for all that anecdotal information about what you hear tell on your block. The mayo clinic recommends male circumision in the case of repeated infection. The mayo clinic does not recommend female circumcision under any circumstances. Perhaps you should send them an email about their outdated science?
Women aren’t ignoring anything, this is literally not our fight and we don’t have mention, think about, or pay lip service to men and their problems. Feminists can actually acknowledge something is bad without shouldering the responsibility to fix it.
In fact, the man in the notes who experienced it himself told you it wasn’t a big deal so I wonder why as a female this is the hill you wanna die on? Shouldn’t we be listening to the actual “victims” of this horrible crime?
Anyway, please print off your post and nail it to the door of the closest temple, church or hospital if you’re really about this life. Some men actually circumcise little boys for a living so unless you’re talking to them, you’re wasting your time. Godspeed, you dick crusader.
“Godspeed, you dick crusader.”
And here’s another feminist who for some reason thinks “dick crusader” is an absolutely hilarious insult. It’s not. It doesn’t even count as an insult, especially coming from radfems who are utterly obsessed with vaginas. So yeah.
It legit pisses me off that feminists ignore the fact that circumcision happens all over the world in places where FGM happens too and it’s no cleaner nor humane when it’s getting done there too.
Any form of genital mutilation is bad and morally wrong and it happens to both genders whether it’s in a hospital or an unsanitary place. Stop acting like it’s a gendered issue. Stop elevating one gender over the other. Stop ignoring the pain and suffering boys are forced to go through just because you don’t care at all or you just care more about girls – that’s absolutely disgusting.
Enough is enough. Help end all genital mutilation.
For the record most feminists are against circumcision. With this post, you are scolding a women’s movement for not solving men’s problems. Mother’s aren’t holding down their 10 year old sons and cutting off their glans as with FGM. Fathers are asking male doctors and male religious leaders to cut the foreskin of their infant sons to please their god or so that their penis will look aesthetic. Yes, it’s bad but women are not responsible for causing it, and women aren’t responsible for fixing it. Please address your concerns to the MRAs or the many patriarchal religions that practice circumcision.
For the record, no they most certainly are not. I’m not even scolding feminists for not solving men’s problems at all, although many feminists claim that’s exactly what they’re doing for the sake of equality even as they actively hurt men. What this post is actually doing is calling out the ignorance and double standards that many feminists have on this matter. You literally are downplaying it here once again as you ignore how it happens in countries where FGM happens too.
Here’s an example. This isn’t any different from FGM and if you honestly think it is, you’re a sick individual and sexist as all hell.
Oh and MRAs are already working on issues like this! And for that matter, despite this not being the reason behind this post, many women are responsible for causing it! I have heard many women say they think intact penises are unattractive. I’ve heard many mothers say they’re going to get their sons cut because they find it more attractive. I’ve heard many women parrot the same old, disproved medical myths about circumcision, et cetera and so forth.
Thanks for all that anecdotal information about what you hear tell on your block. The mayo clinic recommends male circumision in the case of repeated infection. The mayo clinic does not recommend female circumcision under any circumstances. Perhaps you should send them an email about their outdated science?
Women aren’t ignoring anything, this is literally not our fight and we don’t have mention, think about, or pay lip service to men and their problems. Feminists can actually acknowledge something is bad without shouldering the responsibility to fix it.
In fact, the man in the notes who experienced it himself told you it wasn’t a big deal so I wonder why as a female this is the hill you wanna die on? Shouldn’t we be listening to the actual “victims” of this horrible crime?
Anyway, please print off your post and nail it to the door of the closest temple, church or hospital if you’re really about this life. Some men actually circumcise little boys for a living so unless you’re talking to them, you’re wasting your time. Godspeed, you dick crusader.
“Godspeed, you dick crusader.”
And here’s another feminist who for some reason thinks “dick crusader” is an absolutely hilarious insult. It’s not. It doesn’t even count as an insult, especially coming from radfems who are utterly obsessed with vaginas. So yeah.
Celtyradfem 