cultural relativism and liberalism are two sides of the same coin.
Tag: islam
cultural relativism and liberalism are two sides of the same coin.
It seems like the agenda of ‘progressive Muslims’ like Linda Sarsour and Dalia Mogahed is not to make Islam more progressive, but to make progressivism more Islamic. They don’t critique the veil as a mark of the second-class status of women, they want to keep the veil and change people’s perceptions of it. They don’t want a sober look at the immorality and inconsistency of the Qur’an, they want to keep the scripture and get critics to water themselves down lest they be insensitive. As I type this it’s dawning on me that this is the trend in ‘Leftism’ all along the line. Erstwhile progressives are joining arms with the most regressive political forces on offer, for the purpose of giving these forces a rebrand. Progress is turned on its head: it no longer means abandoning harmful traditions, it’s abandoning the recognition that those traditions are harmful at all.
lol this is true of liberal identity politics pretty much across the board lololol
The ultimate gaslighting, with the goal of indoctrination.
It seems like the agenda of ‘progressive Muslims’ like Linda Sarsour and Dalia Mogahed is not to make Islam more progressive, but to make progressivism more Islamic. They don’t critique the veil as a mark of the second-class status of women, they want to keep the veil and change people’s perceptions of it. They don’t want a sober look at the immorality and inconsistency of the Qur’an, they want to keep the scripture and get critics to water themselves down lest they be insensitive. As I type this it’s dawning on me that this is the trend in ‘Leftism’ all along the line. Erstwhile progressives are joining arms with the most regressive political forces on offer, for the purpose of giving these forces a rebrand. Progress is turned on its head: it no longer means abandoning harmful traditions, it’s abandoning the recognition that those traditions are harmful at all.
lol this is true of liberal identity politics pretty much across the board lololol
The ultimate gaslighting, with the goal of indoctrination.
via reddit.com
I remember this. Of course western feminists and liberals ignored it. Like the cowards they are.
When I tell you Muslim prefer women and in this case girls dying to going out without cover I’m not lying, and this shit continues to happen until now , last incident was a college professor who died because the ambulance weren’t allowed to enter campus to get her until too late . Yup fuck saudi Arabia and our government and their citizens.
Westerners only care when convenient. Which means they don’t care at all. Which is what my father has always told me growing up and I foolishly disagreed.
via reddit.com
I remember this. Of course western feminists and liberals ignored it. Like the cowards they are.
When I tell you Muslim prefer women and in this case girls dying to going out without cover I’m not lying, and this shit continues to happen until now , last incident was a college professor who died because the ambulance weren’t allowed to enter campus to get her until too late . Yup fuck saudi Arabia and our government and their citizens.
Westerners only care when convenient. Which means they don’t care at all. Which is what my father has always told me growing up and I foolishly disagreed.
“When India and Pakistan gained independence from the British Empire, there was a time where Pakistan was actually doing better than India and it’s economy had a double-digit growth. So how did Pakistan end up as a poor nation? The authoritarian and intolerant nature of our religion manifested itself and we started killing, discriminating against, or forcibly converting our minorities to Islam. We lost all of our economic progress as Islam became more politically powerful until we became a pariah in the global community.
Muhammad and his disciples didn’t teach people how to build lasting, prosperous civilizations; they taught people how to essentially steal other people’s properties and enslave them. Islam’s intellectual depth is about as deep as the holes they bury women in to stone them to death. It doesn’t get anymore sophisticated than that.”—
“When India and Pakistan gained independence from the British Empire, there was a time where Pakistan was actually doing better than India and it’s economy had a double-digit growth. So how did Pakistan end up as a poor nation? The authoritarian and intolerant nature of our religion manifested itself and we started killing, discriminating against, or forcibly converting our minorities to Islam. We lost all of our economic progress as Islam became more politically powerful until we became a pariah in the global community.
Muhammad and his disciples didn’t teach people how to build lasting, prosperous civilizations; they taught people how to essentially steal other people’s properties and enslave them. Islam’s intellectual depth is about as deep as the holes they bury women in to stone them to death. It doesn’t get anymore sophisticated than that.”—
“Western feminists never talk about Islam!”
As an ex-Muslim I have several problems with this oversimplified statement.
1. A lot times these statements are being made by men trying to justify their own misogyny. They do not actually care about women from Muslim-majority countries or Muslim raised women,they only use them as tokens to excuse the misogyny in their own countries. Misogyny is not a competition, and the idea that any type of misogyny is justified just because someone else has it worse is screwed up and manipulative. There was once a post made by a women in Pakistan (not ex-Muslim) who said that men in Pakistan used the same rhetoric with her when she complained about the lack of female freedom. She was told she couldn’t complain about not having more independence because there were girls who were married off at 16, and girls who were married off were told they shouldn’t complain because there were girls forced to be maids, and the girls forced to be maids shouldn’t complain because they weren’t being beaten by their husbands. I’m paraphrasing the post because I can’t find it or remember the exact wording but it did go along theses lines; of showing how men use the threat of worse treatment to justify their own mistreatment of women.
2. It erases the reality of Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim bigotry if that’s the better term) in the West. It’s not the place of women not raised Muslim to be leading the discussion of sexism in Islam; the discussion should be lead by actual Muslim and ex-Muslim women because we were raised in this religion and know it from experience. We are also the ones who face the brunt of the misogyny in question, so we should be at the forefront of discussion. You don’t have to be Muslim to know honor killings and child marriages are wrong, obviously, but when non-Muslim raised people lead these discussions there are so many things they get wrong about our cultures and how we are raised. You can’t really criticize a culture when you don’t even know what traits are present in that culture. In the West, when imperialism and anti-Muslim sentiment is high, having non-Muslim raised women lead these discussion feeds into the white savior complex of saving brown women from savage brown traditions. I’m not trying to imply any non-Muslim raised woman talking about sexism in Islam and in Muslim-majority countries is a white savior I’m just saying context is important in a country where Muslim women are having people rip their hijabs off in the streets, usually not even with the pretense of “liberating them”.
3. I feel like it’s blaming women for something (Muslim) men have caused. Muslim women are 100% not allowed to point out misogyny without being ostracized. In Islamic schools as kids they discouraged us from asking questions and saying certain rules were unfair. Basically any Muslim woman who points out anything wrong is branded as “Westernized” because somehow there is absolutely nothing wrong with Islam. Muslim men shut down almost all conversations on sexism, so liberals who have to be cautious with their analysis can’t boost any Muslim or Muslim-raised women’s voices and can’t even approach the subject without being labeled as an Islamophobe. Muslim men use the fact that they are victims of racism to justify their misogyny and it prevents valid critiques from being made.The statement is definitely true but it’s not as simple as most people make it out to be.
“Western feminists never talk about Islam!”
As an ex-Muslim I have several problems with this oversimplified statement.
1. A lot times these statements are being made by men trying to justify their own misogyny. They do not actually care about women from Muslim-majority countries or Muslim raised women,they only use them as tokens to excuse the misogyny in their own countries. Misogyny is not a competition, and the idea that any type of misogyny is justified just because someone else has it worse is screwed up and manipulative. There was once a post made by a women in Pakistan (not ex-Muslim) who said that men in Pakistan used the same rhetoric with her when she complained about the lack of female freedom. She was told she couldn’t complain about not having more independence because there were girls who were married off at 16, and girls who were married off were told they shouldn’t complain because there were girls forced to be maids, and the girls forced to be maids shouldn’t complain because they weren’t being beaten by their husbands. I’m paraphrasing the post because I can’t find it or remember the exact wording but it did go along theses lines; of showing how men use the threat of worse treatment to justify their own mistreatment of women.
2. It erases the reality of Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim bigotry if that’s the better term) in the West. It’s not the place of women not raised Muslim to be leading the discussion of sexism in Islam; the discussion should be lead by actual Muslim and ex-Muslim women because we were raised in this religion and know it from experience. We are also the ones who face the brunt of the misogyny in question, so we should be at the forefront of discussion. You don’t have to be Muslim to know honor killings and child marriages are wrong, obviously, but when non-Muslim raised people lead these discussions there are so many things they get wrong about our cultures and how we are raised. You can’t really criticize a culture when you don’t even know what traits are present in that culture. In the West, when imperialism and anti-Muslim sentiment is high, having non-Muslim raised women lead these discussion feeds into the white savior complex of saving brown women from savage brown traditions. I’m not trying to imply any non-Muslim raised woman talking about sexism in Islam and in Muslim-majority countries is a white savior I’m just saying context is important in a country where Muslim women are having people rip their hijabs off in the streets, usually not even with the pretense of “liberating them”.
3. I feel like it’s blaming women for something (Muslim) men have caused. Muslim women are 100% not allowed to point out misogyny without being ostracized. In Islamic schools as kids they discouraged us from asking questions and saying certain rules were unfair. Basically any Muslim woman who points out anything wrong is branded as “Westernized” because somehow there is absolutely nothing wrong with Islam. Muslim men shut down almost all conversations on sexism, so liberals who have to be cautious with their analysis can’t boost any Muslim or Muslim-raised women’s voices and can’t even approach the subject without being labeled as an Islamophobe. Muslim men use the fact that they are victims of racism to justify their misogyny and it prevents valid critiques from being made.The statement is definitely true but it’s not as simple as most people make it out to be.
Celtyradfem 