high-infidelity:

celtyradfem:

high-infidelity:

skeptic42:

confrontingbabble-on:

Read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3313341/Vatican-properties-operating-BROTHELS-massage-parlours-priests-claims-latest-reports-Vatileaks-scandal.html

And http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatileaks-scandal-vatican-properties-used-as-brothels-and-massage-parlours-where-priests-pay-for-sex-a6729251.html

And http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/11/report-vatican-operating-secret-brothels-for-catholic-priests/

In order to fight sin, one must understand it to the fullest extent possible.

It also keeps some of them from chasing the choir boys.  Maybe they ought to make it mandatory.

If things like these keep priests from abusing children, I’m all for it.

Of course it would be better if these places operated legally, which would make it safer for everyone involved, but then churches would have to address the huge hypocrisy of openly condemning a practice they don’t just condone in secret, but are also directly responsible for.

It’s a catch 69.

“If things like these keep priests from abusing children, I’m all for it.”

It

doesn’t. The church and other patriarchal
institutions have a long history of selling or appointing women and
children to abusive men. It doesn’t reduce rape or sexual abuse
committed by men against women and children. At no point in the history
of women’s oppression has this
‘plan‘ worked. In fact it has lowered women’s status and made us even
more vulnerable to abuse and rape.

Sexual abusers don’t do
it just because they are sexually frustrated and need to have sex or
else
they will do bad things. This is not how rape or sexual abuse works. You
should read feminist work about this topic. They have been extensively
researching and writing about this for decades.

Johns often
buy children and teenagers. The johns who do this either don’t care or
they prefer it
that way. They still pay to abuse and rape women and children. Things
like sporting events are hot spots for sex trafficking and they often
find teenagers there along with women (even when it is legal).

“Of course it would be better if these places operated legally, which would make it safer for everyone involved“

Regardless of whether they are in the sex industry or not, legalisation
does not actually prevent violence or abuse against women and children. Legalisation
allows the illegal sector grow to which means more even more
trafficking, abuse and rape. The legal sector is not safe either it is
full of abuse, violence and exploitation so it isn’t safer just more
regulated (which doesn’t make it safe for the women in the sex industry).

Having
a subclass of women available to be used and sexually abused does not make abusive
men stop abusing women and children. This is not a preventative
strategy this just outsources the misery. It is also a great way to
hide the exploitation, abuse and sexual violence against the women and
children victimised in prostitution.

Let me guess: you are one of those feminists who don’t believe any prostitute ever in the history of humanity has gone into the business on their own, or for any other reason than being exploited by evil men?
What about porn stars? what about male prostitutes? what about people who actually enjoy sex, and prefer to work selling it than having a job that pays less and is equally exploiting but less satisfying?

Legalizing prostitution would also go a long way to prevent abuse and traffic situations, especially exploitation of minors, in the same way as legalizing alcohol increases quality control of the product and enforces stricter penalties for those who sell to minors. Contrary to your statement, it will decrease the illegal sector, since right now the whole industry is illegal, and nothing is preventing traffickers from abusing victims but supply and demand. By making it legal, demand for something that could get you in trouble will substantially decrease in favor of the stuff that is allowed. Prostitutes themselves would have more legal resources and will not be afraid to be compromised by calling the authorities when they are abused, not to mention they will not need to depend on thugs to extort them for “protection” since they will be protected by the law like any other legal professionals.

I’m not trying to say that all potential abusers would choose this route, or that sexual abuse would magically disappear, even within the sex industry itself. But for as little positive effect as it might have, it will no doubt be better than how things are in most parts of the world, and you can take a look at studies made in places where they depenalized or legalized it to see the positive effect it’s had.

“Let me guess: you are one of those feminists who don’t believe any prostitute ever in the history of humanity has gone into the business on their own, or for any other reason than being exploited by evil men?”

You guessed right which is to say an actual feminist with actual feminist positions not a sex industry proponent or someone browbeaten by pro prostitution proponents.

Also pointing to a few women who claim to be ok with it doesn’t negate the majority who want out immediately and systematic oppression. Also yes, johns are scumbags.

“Business on their own” this kind of language is deliberately used to obscure economic disenfranchisement, previous abuse, addiction and many other coercive factors that push women into prostitution. I can see what you are doing.

My turn to guess. You think women and girls ‘choose‘ prostitution not that men as a class create the demand and do everything in their power make sure there is a sub class of women for sexual use and abuse.  This is misogynist don’t do it.

“What about porn stars?“

Here is an extensive list of female porn performers speaking out on the exploitation, abuse and violence in pornography.

Here is a former porn performers speaking out about what goes on in the legal California porn industry.

Read through them. I can go get more if you want.

What about male prostitutes?”

The vast majority of sex buyers are male and this includes men buying other men and boys. It still isn’t ok.

“Legalizing prostitution would also go a long way to prevent abuse and traffic situations, especially exploitation of minors, in the same way as legalizing alcohol increases quality control of the product and enforces stricter penalties for those who sell to minors..”

This analogy doesn’t work when human beings are dehumanised and are the considered ‘product‘ by the buyers.

The Nordic model criminalises sex-buyers and third party sellers and decriminalises prostituted people while offering them services and housing. This is the most effective model to help improve prostituted women and children quality of life, reduce violence and abuse and gives them a chance at justice.

“Contrary to your statement, it will decrease the illegal sector”

In Amsterdam and Germany the have a HUGE trafficking problem. Most of the prostituted women in these countries are not local. 

It isn’t difficult to understand that if you legalise prostitution you give traffickers the greenlight and cover. They can use legalisation plausible deniability to get away with it.

Also under legalisation the women who are not able to meet the regulation standards still need money to survive end up in non-regulated prostitution. The Nordic model is the best strategy because it decriminalises prostituted people. offers them services and protections.

“I’m not trying to say that all potential abusers would choose this route”

You claimed that prostitution would help lower rape and abuse rates. Violent men have not decreased violence against women recently or historically. It doesn’t work. I told you it doesn’t work. That was my point. 

The underlying argument there was that pedophiles (and abusers) would take their frustrations out on prostituted women which would ‘protect’ children despite this clearly not working. This is also cruel and unethical why would you want those kind of guys around prostituted women?

“or that sexual abuse would magically disappear, even within the sex industry itself. But for as little positive effect as it might have”

What positive effects are you referring to?

Who do the ‘postive effects’ benefit?

Do you have any evidence of this?

(I told you earlier that prostitution doesn’t decrease sexual violence.)

“Prostitutes themselves would have more legal resources and will not be afraid to be compromised by calling the authorities when they are abused, not to mention they will not need to depend on thugs to extort them for “protection” since they will be protected by the law like any other legal professionals.“

Those thugs are still there they are just in suits. Even in areans where it is legalised rape, abuse, trafficking even murder are common. In many legalised/decriminalised places they make the prostituted women pay for security and they are obliged to ‘tip’ certain people for things that are not actually their responsibility to pay for. There is plenty of extortion and the violent men are still there.

Why would exploiters, traffickers and abusive/violent men leave the sex industry because it is legalised?

“it will no doubt be better than how things are in most parts of the world”

The only countries that have been able to successfully counter act trafficking and abuses in the sex industry are the countries that have implemented the Nordic model. Trafficking, rape and violence decreases under the Nordic model.

“you can take a look at studies made in places where they depenalized or legalized it to see the positive effect it’s had.“

I have seen the studies and even pro-prostitution show that legalisation and full decriminalisation doesn’t work in favour of prostituted women. 

Under the Nordic model is the far more helpful and offers better legal protection because the upper hand because johns and pimps are already breaking the law.

lt is the most efficient way to reduce trafficking by criminalising the demand side of things (sex buyers/johns) and the third part profiteering side of things (pimps/brothel owners/traffickers etc).

Vatican Operating Secret Brothels For Catholic Priests…